CA sacks female employee for tweets about abortion

[Ausage]

The exposing of her health records is absolutely dire. People will no doubt be able to guess that it reinforces my position about governments generally, but really even given the current paradigm that's inexcusable.

Her losing her job is a different issue. Would prefer that we didn't live in such a politically charged world that people felt the need to be activists online, but we do and I don't see why it's particularly egregious that an abortion advocate felt some backlash for advocating a controversial political position when the same concern isn't extended on other positions.

 

[Burgey]

I don't know that her position was all that controversial, given abortion is legal in Tassie. She was advocating greater access to resources so she and others wouldn't have to travel to the mainland to access what's already a legal service in her own state.

 

[Ausage]

I wouldn't have thought "Men and women are biologically different" was a particularly controversial opinion either tbh.

Anything related to abortion is controversial though, given one side thinks it's literally murder and the other thinks it's a womens rights issue. Whether that should or should not be the case is another question.

 

[hendrix]

The exposing of her health records is absolutely dire. People will no doubt be able to guess that it reinforces my position about governments generally, but really even given the current paradigm that's inexcusable.

Her losing her job is a different issue. Would prefer that we didn't live in such a politically charged world that people felt the need to be activists online, but we do and I don't see why it's particularly egregious that an abortion advocate felt some backlash for advocating a controversial political position when the same concern isn't extended on other positions.

- I don't think it's a particularly controversial opinion, at least in terms of how mainstream it is
- If the Government is unable to act professional manner with someone they have a personal issue with, that's entirely on them, not her. The employers are questioning the tone of a tweet but you'd hope a politician would have a bit thicker skin than that.
- The Government are electable officials (i.e. fundamentally different to being a client or a customer), the onus is on them to act professionally in their dealings. This is not the same thing as a salesman sleeping with the wife of a client.
- She campaigned in her own private time.
- A government staffer acting in his own capacity brought her personal views to the attention of her employer

With all that said, this is her side of the story, and potentially there's a whole lot more that went on - but if there was it's weird the employers didn't include it in her notice.

 

[Ausage]

- I don't think it's a particularly controversial opinion, at least in terms of how mainstream it is
- If the Government is unable to act professional manner with someone they have a personal issue with, that's entirely on them, not her. The employers are questioning the tone of a tweet but you'd hope a politician would have a bit thicker skin than that.
- The Government are electable officials (i.e. fundamentally different to being a client or a customer), the onus is on them to act professionally in their dealings. This is not the same thing as a salesman sleeping with the wife of a client.
- She campaigned in her own private time.
- A government staffer acting in his own capacity brought her personal views to the attention of her employer

With all that said, this is her side of the story, and potentially there's a whole lot more that went on - but if there was it's weird the employers didn't include it in her notice.

I disagree that government provision of abortion services (let alone their legality) isn't controversial. The numbers against it in Australia are lower than those in the US but you're still looking at around the 30% mark. Given the stakes it's pretty understandable for the people in that category to feel strongly about the issue. The numbers, though still reasonably high, don't do the issue justice.

I do agree that any of the "offended" parties in cases where people have been fired for political activities should grow a thicker skin but I disagree that it makes much difference if the party is government or the public and definitely not for the entity you're ultimately responsible to as an employee (your employer). I don't think the government comes up smelling of roses in any of this though (particularly given their involvement in releasing her health info), I just don't think it's all that different to a guy like Damore getting fired and it's interesting to observe the differences between how the two issues are treated.

Agree the staffer is a bit of a snake, but hey it's a risk you run when you put your real name to public opinions.

 

[hendrix]

I disagree that government provision of abortion services (let alone their legality) isn't controversial. The numbers against it in Australia are lower than those in the US but you're still looking at around the 30% mark. Given the stakes it's pretty understandable for the people in that category to feel strongly about the issue. The numbers, though still reasonably high, don't do the issue justice.

I do agree that any of the "offended" parties in cases where people have been fired for political activities should grow a thicker skin but I disagree that it makes much difference if the party is government or the public and definitely not for the entity you're ultimately responsible to as an employee (your employer). I don't think the government comes up smelling of roses in any of this though (particularly given their involvement in releasing her health info), I just don't think it's all that different to a guy like Damore getting fired and it's interesting to observe the differences between how the two issues are treated.

Agree the staffer is a bit of a snake, but hey it's a risk you run when you put your real name to public opinions.

I would much, much rather people put their own public names out there when they lobby and campaign local Government than act behind closed doors with anonymous donations to anonymous lobby groups and anonymous twitter handles.

Yes, she has a professional relationship to the government, but so does every orderly who works in a public hospital or a bus driver. Moreover, so does any citizen full stop in that they have a responsibility to engage the service of the public sector simply by being citizens.

 

[harsh.ag]

Regardless of her duties towards her employers, I think Ausage would agree that this is a clear case of government bullying a protester and that there is a difference between protesting against a private sector customer and protesting against a government policy.

 

[Ausage]

I would much, much rather people put their own public names out there when they lobby and campaign local Government than act behind closed doors with anonymous donations to anonymous lobby groups and anonymous twitter handles.

So would I, but we don't live in that world and that only seems to matter when it's opinions sanctioned by certain lines of political thinking like "government should be providing abortions". When it's "men and women are biologically different and make different professional choices" the termination becomes a natural outcome of colleagues being unable to work with the individual.

Regardless of her duties towards her employers, I think Ausage would agree that this is a clear case of government bullying a protester and that there is a difference between protesting against a private sector customer and protesting against a government policy.

Yes and no. It underscores problems that arise out of having a government with such a wide sphere of influence. But the answer isn't "government should have a thicker skin" or "government shouldnt exert influence where it has it", the answer is "there should be less government".

 

[hendrix]

So would I, but we don't live in that world and that only seems to matter when it's opinions sanctioned by certain lines of political thinking like "government should be providing abortions". When it's "men and women are biologically different and make different professional choices" the termination becomes a natural outcome of colleagues being unable to work with the individual.

Errr so you're using a miscarriage of fairness to defend another miscarriage of fairness? I'm not quite sure what you're saying here. Obviously I don't want your second sentence to occur either, and that's just as bad.

Yes and no. It underscores problems that arise out of having a government with such a wide sphere of influence. But the answer isn't "government should have a thicker skin" or "government shouldnt exert influence where it has it", the answer is "there should be less government".

Well maybe...but we don't live in that world and we're talking about this specific case.

 

[zorax]

Impressive how we're back to talking about Libertarianism and Jordan Peterson again

 

[harsh.ag]

Yes and no. It underscores problems that arise out of having a government with such a wide sphere of influence. But the answer isn't "government should have a thicker skin" or "government shouldnt exert influence where it has it", the answer is "there should be less government".

Well maybe...but we don't live in that world and we're talking about this specific case.

What hendrix said, plus even in a world close to your ideal, companies will have government as a customer and an employee of that company should be able to protest against government policy as a citizen, wouldn't you agree?

 

[Ausage]

Errr so you're using a miscarriage of fairness to defend another miscarriage of fairness? I'm not quite sure what you're saying here. Obviously I don't want your second sentence to occur either, and that's just as bad.

I'm no more claiming you're defending Damores firing than I am defending the CA employees. I think I've said I don't like this situation 3 different ways now. I just think it's interesting how "right" and "wrong" political opinions seem to get treated in these kinds of situations and most people only seem to care about it when it's a "wrong" opinion.

 

[Ausage]

What hendrix said, plus even in a world close to your ideal, companies will have government as a customer and an employee of that company should be able to protest against government policy as a citizen, wouldn't you agree?

Yeah I guess. I just think expecting it to be any different is fantasy. People use influence where they can, be that a blue haired feminist or a health minister copping heat on twitter.

 

[harsh.ag]

Yeah I guess. I just think expecting it to be any different is fantasy. People use influence where they can, be that a blue haired feminist or a health minister copping heat on twitter.

There has been a lot of progress wrt curbing this though, so fantasy is not the best way to think about it imo.

 

[hendrix]

Yeah just because things aren't perfect doesn't mean we shouldn't value how (relatively) accountable we hold the Government in countries like Australia.

Could be a lot, lot worse.

 

[Spark]

There has been a lot of progress wrt curbing this though, so fantasy is not the best way to think about it imo.

Fantasies are powerful motivators even if they're impossible.

EDIT: interpret this how you will

 

[Redbacks]

India to win a test series in Aus...actually this summer without Smith and Warner it’s closer than normal

 

[the big bambino]

Brisbane Times says Greg Hunt is redrafting legislation for "My Health Record" to prevent information being accessed by the state without a court order.

 

[sledger]

Shouldn't be accessible to the state even with a court order.