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FBI lands in Mumbai to conduct investigation into the bombings

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duffer

Well-known member
Probably trying to get an "independent" source to try and nail Pakistan in this somehow. Or maybe I'm being cynical.
 

Matt79

Global Moderator
However, FBI's jurisdiction is strictly domestic right? Wikied and found nothing contrary.
Nah, its a law enforcement agency for the United States government. Where the laws of the US have force, it has powers. Now obviously this means that generally it is confined in its powers to acting within the US, however there are categories of crime that the US, and other countries, have said contravene their national laws whereever they take place. Enforceability is normally the major stumbling block with such decisions though - the Australian government could rule that its illegal for anyone to burn an Australian flag, but if some guy in India does that, they don't really have much scope to do anything about it.

Where that changes radically is when an agency like the FBI is invited by a foreign government to come and cooperate with their own agencies, usually because they have specialised knowledge or equipment that the locals don't have. In that case, they'd be working in liaison with the Indians, with the Special Branch or whoever doing all the actual arresting etc, and supervising the handling of evidence. That isn't unusual and has certainly happened in the past in terrorism related issues - for instance the Australian Federal Police cooperated with Indonesian authorities to assist in the investigation of the Bali bombings, providing specialised investigative techniques and forensics.

I'd doubt very much the FBI is going to be investigating the issue away from Indian authorities, and certainly won't be arresting people and dragging them back to the US. They'll be working with Indian police, and helping them nail the right people, that's all. Bush would have said, "what can we do to help?" and the government would have said, "help us catch the rest of this network".
 

Top_Cat

Well-known member
Nah, its a law enforcement agency for the United States government. Where the laws of the US have force, it has powers. Now obviously this means that generally it is confined in its powers to acting within the US, however there are categories of crime that the US, and other countries, have said contravene their national laws whereever they take place. Enforceability is normally the major stumbling block with such decisions though - the Australian government could rule that its illegal for anyone to burn an Australian flag, but if some guy in India does that, they don't really have much scope to do anything about it.

Where that changes radically is when an agency like the FBI is invited by a foreign government to come and cooperate with their own agencies, usually because they have specialised knowledge or equipment that the locals don't have. In that case, they'd be working in liaison with the Indians, with the Special Branch or whoever doing all the actual arresting etc, and supervising the handling of evidence. That isn't unusual and has certainly happened in the past in terrorism related issues - for instance the Australian Federal Police cooperated with Indonesian authorities to assist in the investigation of the Bali bombings, providing specialised investigative techniques and forensics.

I'd doubt very much the FBI is going to be investigating the issue away from Indian authorities, and certainly won't be arresting people and dragging them back to the US. They'll be working with Indian police, and helping them nail the right people, that's all. Bush would have said, "what can we do to help?" and the government would have said, "help us catch the rest of this network".
Yep, it's obviously not within their statutory rights but they can act in a consultancy role. Nothing unusual there.

Slack bastards always took forever to get back to me about any sex offenders I asked them about. Mind you, their main intel system is still a mainframe from what I've heard...
 

Precambrian

Banned
Nah, its a law enforcement agency for the United States government. Where the laws of the US have force, it has powers. Now obviously this means that generally it is confined in its powers to acting within the US, however there are categories of crime that the US, and other countries, have said contravene their national laws whereever they take place. Enforceability is normally the major stumbling block with such decisions though - the Australian government could rule that its illegal for anyone to burn an Australian flag, but if some guy in India does that, they don't really have much scope to do anything about it.

Where that changes radically is when an agency like the FBI is invited by a foreign government to come and cooperate with their own agencies, usually because they have specialised knowledge or equipment that the locals don't have. In that case, they'd be working in liaison with the Indians, with the Special Branch or whoever doing all the actual arresting etc, and supervising the handling of evidence. That isn't unusual and has certainly happened in the past in terrorism related issues - for instance the Australian Federal Police cooperated with Indonesian authorities to assist in the investigation of the Bali bombings, providing specialised investigative techniques and forensics.

I'd doubt very much the FBI is going to be investigating the issue away from Indian authorities, and certainly won't be arresting people and dragging them back to the US. They'll be working with Indian police, and helping them nail the right people, that's all. Bush would have said, "what can we do to help?" and the government would have said, "help us catch the rest of this network".
Makes sense when they are acting as consultants.
 

Goughy

Well-known member
http://www.rediff.com/news/2008/dec/01mumterror-fbi-team-gets-down-to-business.htm

Doubts -

1. Isn't FBI sanctioned to conduct it's stuff only inside the territory of USA? And CIA handles international stuff?

2. What is it's scope? And how much freedom is it allowed in India?
1. To be simple, FBI conducts investigations and the CIA collects information.

2. The scope is whatever the Indian government allows it. FBI often get involve at the invitation of foreign governements, just as Scotland Yard often has officers on secondment working overseas with foreign agencies.
 

WhatisRight

Well-known member
I was just reading this from the indian website:
http://www.rediff.com/news/2008/nov/28-some-questions-about-the-terror-attacks.htm

A few interesting questions asked from people:

1: If the terrorists were Pakistani, how did they have such an intimate knowledge of the terrain? The two or three cowards who attacked the CST on Wednesday night made their way from the CST through a road on the left side of The Times of India building towards the Cama and Albess hospital/Azad Maidan police station, a route that is known only to true-blood Mumbaikars. Were they locals? Or did they conduct extensive reconnisance of the likely routes of escape?

2: Such an operation could not have been conducted without extensive training and preparation, possibly on models of the Taj and Trident or Chabad House/Nariman House. Could this have been achieved at the rudimentary training camps hosted by the Lashkar-e-Tayiba in Pakistan occupied Kashmir? Or was it a more systematised operation conducted by a State agency in a hostile country?

3: The terrorists are said to have done extensive reconnisance of the city. If they are Pakistanis, how did they get earlier entry to the city unnoticed? Did they come in by boat? Or did they use other routes to escape notice?
 

Top_Cat

Well-known member
You know what's really funny about articles like that, though? They're built on the presumption that the Police wouldn't already be investigating all of those avenues to establish a timeline of events. Questions like "Why hasn't x been investigated?" are easily answered by anyone who has ever worked in a Police environment with "Investigations take time and resources are limited."

They're also built on the presumption that the results of such lines of inquiry will be publicly available or up for discussion. Err, no. "Are the CCTV records of the hotels available?" Yes. Not to you.

A lot of the questions are also built on the assumption that everything in the real world works perfectly, money is no object to safety and prevention, etc. Questions like "Why do the best hotels in Mumbai have such pathetic security?" Security costs money and it's all very well to demand perfect security to prevent a highly infrequent event when you're not the one to pay for it.

"How come the terrorists were able to fight for more then 40 hours? This is very clear that all these people got the arms and weapons ready on site in advance. Isn't this a question on the qualification and intelligence of our police and all other security agencies?"

No it's not. It's because something like a large-scale terrorist attack with multiple strongholds where the terrorist, by definition, have the drop on the local Police is a complex thing to deal with. Mistakes occur, communication between the decision-makers themselves or with the troops on the ground is rarely perfect, bad decisions in hindsight are made with what seems good info at the time, stuff doesn't work, stuff dies, people die, plans fall apart, etc. There is no one, regimented way to deal with such a fluid situation and when things get hairy, **** happens. Facts of life in a police response. It's why counter-terrorism practice ops are done regularly and different models for how to organise the troops are tested; there are different ways to respond to different situations.

Sure, the local Police might not have been in the best position to deal with the whole thing. But I reckon, transferring what happened to, say, Sydney would have resulted in a pretty similar outcome. That one of their higher-ups got knocked-off in the early stages would not have helped matters.

So easy to Monday-morning quarter-back these sorts of things, no kidding.
 
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WhatisRight

Well-known member
You know what's really funny about articles like that, though? They're built on the presumption that the Police wouldn't already be investigating all of those avenues to establish a timeline of events. Questions like "Why hasn't x been investigated?" are easily answered by anyone who has ever worked in a Police environment with "Investigations take time and resources are limited."

They're also built on the presumption that the results of such lines of inquiry will be publicly available or up for discussion. Err, no.
Yeah i agree with you. Am not coming to any conclusion anyway. But these are some questions i would wana know myself.
 

WhatisRight

Well-known member
wow! it is conclusively proved that the terrorists were hindus, absolutely no doubts whatsoever!!!!!8-)
I never said that. Unlike the indian media, i wont come to any conclusion on this untill everything is clear and everything has been investigated.
 

Sanz

Well-known member
wow! it is conclusively proved that the terrorists were hindus, absolutely no doubts whatsoever!!!!!8-)
You have to give it to them for trying so hard....They they come up with justifications...and with another cheap shot at Indian media.
 

jeevan

Well-known member
I was just reading this from the indian website:
http://www.rediff.com/news/2008/nov/28-some-questions-about-the-terror-attacks.htm

A few interesting questions asked from people:

1: If the terrorists were Pakistani, how did they have such an intimate knowledge of the terrain? The two or three cowards who attacked the CST on Wednesday night made their way from the CST through a road on the left side of The Times of India building towards the Cama and Albess hospital/Azad Maidan police station, a route that is known only to true-blood Mumbaikars. Were they locals? Or did they conduct extensive reconnisance of the likely routes of escape?

2: Such an operation could not have been conducted without extensive training and preparation, possibly on models of the Taj and Trident or Chabad House/Nariman House. Could this have been achieved at the rudimentary training camps hosted by the Lashkar-e-Tayiba in Pakistan occupied Kashmir? Or was it a more systematised operation conducted by a State agency in a hostile country?

3: The terrorists are said to have done extensive reconnisance of the city. If they are Pakistanis, how did they get earlier entry to the city unnoticed? Did they come in by boat? Or did they use other routes to escape notice?
The one terrorist who survived has provided some answers. 1. They had lived in India under the guise of being students, several months ago. 2. He has named a henchman od Dawood Ibrahim, who was Mumbai-based, who provided support.
 
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