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Imran v Hadlee v Miller

Line and Length

Well-known member
I'm taking it as a given that the two ATG all-rounders are Sobers and Kallis, but who would you rank next?

The general feeling I get that it is either Imran Khan or Richard Hadlee but I have a soft spot for Keith Miller.

Imran, in 88 Tests scored 3807 runs @ 37.7 including 6 centuries. He took 362 wickets @ 22.8 - a fine average.

Hadlee played 86 Tests scoring 3124 runs @ 27.2 and made 2 centuries. He took 431 wickets @ 22.3 - another fine average.

Comparing the two, Imran clearly was the better bat and there is little to separate their bowling, though I'd lean slightly towards Sir Richard.

Let's now consider Miller. He played 55 Tests scoring 2958 runs @ 37.0 and made 7 centuries. He took 170 wickets @ 22.9 - right up there with the other two on average but far fewer wickets per match.

Two factors need consideration when comparing the trio.

Firstly we should consider where they batted. Miller went in at number 3 (11 times), 4 (17 times) and 5 (52 times) - a total of 80 of his 87 innings. At number 5, where he batted most frequently. he averaged 42.0
Imran Khan spent most of his career batting at number 6 (23 times), 7 (63) and 8 (30) with an average of 34.8 in his most frequented spot.
Hadlee batted even lower, going in at number 7 (48 times), 8 (53) and 9 (22) with an average of 27.4 at his favoured number 8.
Clearly, on batting Miller is well ahead of Khan with an even bigger gap to Hadlee.

When looking at their bowling performances, they had very similar averages but in wickets per game Hadlee (5.0) is clear of Imran (4.1) and Miller (3.1). But is it that clear cut? Miller had to share wickets with some pretty talented team-mates (Lindwall and other "Invincibles" and then Davidson and Benaud). Also, at times he was carrying an injury which prevented him bowling.

Summing up, I rate Miller alongside Imran and ahead of Hadlee. Other contenders (Botham, Dev et al) are further back though I must acknowledge Shaun Pollock as one who come close to the three I've discussed.
 

TheJediBrah

Well-known member
I'd be leaning toward Imran or Miller. Hadlee not necessary an inferior player but not as genuine an all-rounder IMO
 

ankitj

Well-known member
I'm taking it as a given that the two ATG all-rounders are Sobers and Kallis, but who would you rank next?
Imran has a decent case to be regarded better than both. Hadlee and Kallis as overall package are quite close although some may not consider the former an all rounder. Miller behind these 4 to complete set of top 5 all rounders IMO.
 
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trundler

Well-known member
Miller > Kallis as an all rounder tho. Kallis and Sobers fit better into an ATG side because you already have 4 great bowlers and they're both ATG batsmen on their own but only Miller (and peak Botham) did as much with bat and ball together. Hadlee was more of a bowler who could bat a bit.
 

Line and Length

Well-known member
I should also have said that I was only looking at fast/medium all-rounders - though Sir Garfield was a pretty handy spinner as well.
 

honestbharani

Well-known member
Miller the best bat of the 3, Hadlee the best bowler of the 3.. Imran did not quite sustain peaks as both batsman and bowler in the same series most of the times. But as a guy who was a bowling all rounder for the first half of his career and a batting all rounder the second half of his career, he is perhaps the best allrounder of the 3.
 

trundler

Well-known member
X factor counts for a lot with genuine all rounders. You can't realistically expect someone to average 45 and 25 but the fact that Stokes or Miller can win the unwinnable when the chips are down means they're worth their weight in gold imo.
 

ankitj

Well-known member
When looking at their bowling performances, they had very similar averages but in wickets per game Hadlee (5.0) is clear of Imran (4.1) and Miller (3.1). But is it that clear cut? Miller had to share wickets with some pretty talented team-mates (Lindwall and other "Invincibles" and then Davidson and Benaud).
While that hurts your wickets per match (which is relatively a less important metric ), it helps your average because you don't bowl many overs when you are not at your best or conditions don't suit you.

EDIT: Although what I am saying then implies that good average but low WPM means your average is helped by lower workload. So WPM matters then.
 
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trundler

Well-known member
Lindwall and Benaud finished with relatively low WPMs too so I wonder if it's an era thing. Makes FST even more remarkable.
 

trundler

Well-known member
FB_IMG_1594027533401.jpg

Somebody calculated and posted this table of adjusted averages * SR. I don't agree with the prioritisation of SR to yay extent but it shows Trueman was all ahead of the curve.
 

mr_mister

Well-known member
After 16 of his 25 tests Aubrey Faulkner averaged 47 with the bat and 22 with the ball

Even after 19 he averaged 51 with the bat and 26 with the ball

His late career form drop(which he might have rectified had WW1 not intervened) had him end up with 40/26 as his averages, what could have been
 
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trundler

Well-known member
After 16 of his 25 tests Aubrey Faulkner averaged 47 with the bat and 22 with the ball

Even after 19 he averaged 51 with the bat and 26 with the ball

His late career form drop(which he might have rectified had WW1 not intervened) had him end up with 40/26 as his averages, what could have been
He was severely depressed and not his old self towards the end. In his last test, he was reportedly shaky and jittery. Was only 30 when he played his last test before the war. Rarely have we seen a rival since.
 

Howe_zat

Well-known member
If you want to talk about 'x-factor' i.e. game impact, Beefy had more tons and 5-fors than any of them (except Hadlee on 5wh). 14 tons and 27 five wicket hauls I don't expect to ever be beaten, and he did almost all of it in the first 2/3 of his career
 
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vcs

Well-known member
Hadlee was putting up some mind-boggling numbers in County Cricket when it was pretty strong with lots of WI, Pakistan players etc. I think his Test batting average is OK considering he only batted at 7 and lower, wonder which position he batted at for Nottinghamshire.

https://www.cricketcountry.com/cric...ng-statistics-that-reflects-his-genius-505565

Hadlee played 148 First-Class matches for Nottinghamshire and scored 5854 runs at an average of 38.76 with 11 tons, including a double ton. This was his best batting record for any team in First-Class cricket. With the ball in hand, he accounted for 622 wickets at an astonishing average of 14.51. Thus, he remains one of their greatest all-rounders along with his comrade Clive Rice.

8. Tons and five-wickets in the same match

Hadlee managed a century and a five-wicket haul in the same match on three separate occasions for Nottinghamshire in county cricket. The first time he did it was in 1978 against Derbyshire where he scored 101 not out and took five for 25 in the first essay. He then managed it in 1984 against Hampshire with 100 not out in the first innings and a spell of five for 35 in the second innings. His masterpiece came against Somerset in 1987 when he smashed 101 in the first innings and then went on to take two six-wicket hauls.

9. 1000 runs and 100 wickets in one season

In the 1984 County Championship, Hadlee managed to take 117 wickets and score 1179 runs. What makes those numbers all the more impressive is that his bowling average was 14.05, while his batting average soared above 50!The last time someone managed the double was back in 1966, when Surrey s Stewart Storey took 103 wickets and scored 1013 runs. No player has managed the feat since. Hadlee came close to emulating it in 1987 when he scored 1075 runs and took 97 wickets.
 

Lillian Thomson

Well-known member
Miller is the only genuine allrounder amongst them. Hadlee was not a batsman at all, though a useful hitter at 7 or 8. Imran was only a number 7 or 8 during his prime years as a bowler. Most of his record as a batsman is due to becoming a dogged accumulator of runs late in his career.
 

ankitj

Well-known member
I go: 1. Sobers 2. Imran 3. Hadlee 4. Kallis 5. Miller 6. Botham 7. Procter 8. S. Pollock 9. Kapil 10. Shakib 11. Faulkner 12. Mankad 13. Jadeja 14. Flintoff 15. Goddard
 
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