Environmentalism

[watson]

You could buy a solar panel from China rather than a VCR. Or a hybrid car. Or a composting toilet.

Your consumer's choice did it, not trade deals.

Australians choose to eat extremely high quantities of meat that release 30x as much carbon as most asian diets, to drive rather than use public transport, to mine heavy metals with little environmental protection. Australians choose to spend their paycheque on drugs and alcohol and ARL rather than investing in the environment.

China's public health campaigns and environmental awareness is already leagues better than Australia's. Not saying they're great or anything, but it is extremely rich for an Australian to focus his environmental and consumer concerns on China, and moreover to use this a critique of globalisation.

I made a criticism of the trans-Pacific deals that encouraged the Chinese government to destroy it's environment and increase Global Warming. I'm not pinning the greed on any one country here, and that should have been clear in my previous post.

Fact is, the American government for the past 30 years had left the health of our planet in the hands of 60 or so multi-nationals and a totalitarian state in search of regional hegemony. That is a recipe for disaster if I saw one, and a direct result of uncontrolled and unfettered Globalisation.

 

[watson]

China burning 2.75 billion tonnes of coal annually V Australians eating lots of red meat


Not really a contest.

 

[vcs]

China burning 2.75 billion tonnes of coal annually V Australians eating lots of red meat


Not really a contest.

Be interesting to see the per capita carbon footprint stats though.

 

[Bahnz]

Australia 16.3 metric tons of CO2 per capita
China 7.6 metric tons per capita

Based on the U.S. Department of Energy analysis

 

[hendrix]

China burning 2.75 billion tonnes of coal annually V Australians eating lots of red meat


Not really a contest.

Agreed:

Australia 16.3 metric tons of CO2 per capita
China 7.6 metric tons per capita

Based on the U.S. Department of Energy analysis

Keep in mind this only carbon dioxide, and doesn't include methane emissions, which is the main thing I was talking about. Total emissions (from the world bank):

China 12 454 710.605 divided by 1.357 billion = 0.00918kt/CO2, or 9.1kg per person.
Australia 761 686.264 divided by 23.13 million = 0.0329kt/CO2 or 32.9kg per person.

But the more important thing here is to recognise the CONSUMER is causing this. If Watson is buying cheap products from CHina why is he blaming trade deals and why is he not blaming himself for buying them?

 

[hendrix]

I think if there was a way of tracing carbon footprint in terms of total consumption, the numbers would be even more skewed. As watson so kindly points out, China produces most of its emissions on its exports.

The proper response would be a global carbon tax, obviously.

 

[watson]

I think if there was a way of tracing carbon footprint in terms of total consumption, the numbers would be even more skewed. As watson so kindly points out, China produces most of its emissions on its exports.

The proper response would be a global carbon tax, obviously.

That's right. China consumes half the world's coal and its biggest exporter by a long way. It exports nearly twice as much as the USA, India, and Australia combined.

Unfortunately, China is unlikely to embrace a carbon tax as it derives 2/3s of its energy from burning coal; plus its debt to GDP at the end of 2016 stood at 277%. In other words any move to pay a significant carbon tax would most likely cripple the economy.

China GDP beats expectations but debt risks loom | Reuters

It's what you call a goddam mess even allowing for the Paris agreements.

 

[hendrix]

That's right. China consumes half the world's coal and its biggest exporter by a long way. It exports nearly twice as much as the USA, India, and Australia combined.

Unfortunately, China is unlikely to embrace a carbon tax as it derives 2/3s of its energy from burning coal; plus its debt to GDP at the end of 2016 stood at 277%. In other words any move to pay a significant carbon tax would most likely cripple the economy.

China GDP beats expectations but debt risks loom | Reuters

It's what you call a goddam mess even allowing for the Paris agreements.

You seem to not understand fundamental economics.

China is not "the consumer" if they're an exporting country. You and I are the consumer.