The Official Pakistan Politics thread

[salman85]

A nice writeup for haters out there.

Why is it wrong to praise Imran Khan? | Blog | DAWN.COM

 

[smalishah84]

Great article about the Jalsa.

I sure like your sig. I hope it comes true Agent. IA

 

[Agent Nationaux]

Thanks Smali.

 

[G.I.Joe]

The Taliban never intended to conquer the world. You have to understand their mentality. They only wanted a better Afghanistan free from drugs, prostitution etc. That's why they stood up (a talib is a student). Before 9/11 the US never cared for the Taliban because they were harmless. The US only came after Al Qaida. The Taliban even offered to hand over Bin Laden, which the US refused because they wanted the country. Now the Taliban are fighting for their homeland (can you really blame them for that).

And once the US leaves, the Talibs will come back into power because the Afghan government is weak and is mainly Tajik. Most of the population of Afghanistan is Pushtun and so are the Talibs. Do you really think the majority Pushtuns will support the Tajik government once US leaves. Pushtuns always support their tribe first (that's their mentality).

Once the US leaves, Pakistan will have a chance to sort itself out. At the moment the military is using this to their advantage by playing their double game with the US and Pakistani people. They are diverting the education, health and other budgets to themselves and also taking money from the US. This is what Imran is trying to sort out. That is why he wants the US gone, so that Pakistan has a chance to manage its problems. But I don't know how he will manage the ISI, however has Zardari managed it, or did Sharif manage it. We aren't voting for Imran to manage the military, we are voting for him because he is better than the rest and he will improve the situation in Pakistan.

Doesn't the "etc" include music, photographs, satellite television, Buddha statues, cinema, computers, toys? Extremely disingenuous to use the innocuous abbreviation there. They were also okay with the opium trade because they didn't care if the westerners partook of it. Of course, the resultant income and taxes were incidental benefits.

 

[Agent Nationaux]

The Taliban are no more Wahabists than the Saudis. And it's also part of their culture. They are a backwards people, but an invasion for that reason is ridiculous. Let them operate how they have operated for the last few centuries.

The Taliban have always been against the drug trade in their country. It's the Afghan warlords who have promoted it and benefited from it.

 

[Agent Nationaux]

Kids in Afghanistan don't get toys, they are presented with guns. That's how they have always operated.

 

[G.I.Joe]

It wasn't meant as a reason for invading them, but rather to point out that they weren't all sugar and spice and babies dipped in honey.

 

[Agent Nationaux]

Yeah, but nobody is sugar and spice and all things nice.

 

[Agent Nationaux]

Unless you are Daemon.

 

[Cevno]

Unless you are Daemon.

Will see if you still say that, when he makes you his next meal.

 

[Cevno]

Btw, will respond to some points that have been made which i disagree with in this thread later. A few different issues also getting mixed up.

Ftr, never been opposed to Imran and he would certainly bring some hope and probably be better than the rest who are useless, but don't think some of his proposed policies are practical or in some cases ideal for the region as a whole. West or no West doesn't matter in many of them.

 

[smalishah84]

the thing is that current policies have been making the situation from bad to worse for the last 10 years.....so why not change??

 

[smalishah84]

Btw, will respond to some points that have been made which i disagree with in this thread later. A few different issues also getting mixed up.

Ftr, never been opposed to Imran and he would certainly bring some hope and probably be better than the rest who are useless, but don't think some of his proposed policies are practical or in some cases ideal for the region as a whole. West or no West doesn't matter in many of them.

Not sure what you mean. Would be good if you elaborate

Will see if you still say that, when he makes you his next meal.

 

[Fusion]

Yeah.


BTW Fusion is missing from this thread

lol.....I thought of posting this earlier but I knew that Fusion will jump in at some point.

[/url]

I've been busy with work the past few days and haven't had a chance to reply and rain down the Imran Khan love parade. Don't worry, I have PLENTY to say on why Imran is not the messiah that he's made out to be. I'll write up a response in the next day or so. I'm sure you all will be waiting with bated breath.

 

[smalishah84]

we are all waiting for the venom to start pouring

 

[slowfinger]

The Taliban never intended to conquer the world. You have to understand their mentality. They only wanted a better Afghanistan free from drugs, prostitution etc. That's why they stood up (a talib is a student). Before 9/11 the US never cared for the Taliban because they were harmless. The US only came after Al Qaida. The Taliban even offered to hand over Bin Laden, which the US refused because they wanted the country. Now the Taliban are fighting for their homeland (can you really blame them for that).

And once the US leaves, the Talibs will come back into power because the Afghan government is weak and is mainly Tajik. Most of the population of Afghanistan is Pushtun and so are the Talibs. Do you really think the majority Pushtuns will support the Tajik government once US leaves. Pushtuns always support their tribe first (that's their mentality).

Once the US leaves, Pakistan will have a chance to sort itself out. At the moment the military is using this to their advantage by playing their double game with the US and Pakistani people. They are diverting the education, health and other budgets to themselves and also taking money from the US. This is what Imran is trying to sort out. That is why he wants the US gone, so that Pakistan has a chance to manage its problems. But I don't know how he will manage the ISI, however has Zardari managed it, or did Sharif manage it. We aren't voting for Imran to manage the military, we are voting for him because he is better than the rest and he will improve the situation in Pakistan.

9/11 is a load of bull**** dude... *bring on the hate* The American's just used that as an excuse to invade the Taliban, and concerning Pakistan, we need them out. That is what Imran wants to do.

 

[smalishah84]

pretty strong sentiments there

 

[Xuhaib]

The only reason I am in favor of Imran is his promise reforming the tax system and getting the judiciary independent. Pakistan's foreign policy will always be dictated by the army Imran or no Imran.

 

[Fusion]

As promised, let me present a case against The Messiah, err I mean Imran Khan. I warn you, this will be a long read. I also fully expect this thread to blow up in outrage over my remarks and for me to be labeled as a tool for corrupt politicians like Zardari/Nawaz/Altaf. So be it. I’m going to start with listing a few things I like about Imran. First and foremost, he’s my favorite cricket player of all-time and the reason I started watching the sport. That’s not really relevant to this thread though (but I do wonder how many of his supporters mix their feelings for the cricket player with the politician). I believe Imran is probably the least corrupt of all Pakistani politicians. I don’t think he can ever be bought, which is an admirable thing. I also greatly admire his efforts in building the cancer hospital for the poor, which is probably his life’s greatest achievement. See there? I can see the good in him. Unfortunately, I also see the bad.

Imran’s a hypocrite:

This supposed champion of democracy and people’s power actually has a terrible record in supporting democracy itself. He had a very friendly relationship with arguably the worst dictator in Pakistan’s history, Zia Ul Haq. But that was prior to his entry into politics and one can argue he was merely indulging the head of state. However, nothing can justify this democratic champion’s support of General Musharraf in 1999. That’s right folks; Imran supported the military coup that overthrew Nawaz Sharif. Now there is no doubt that Sharif was corrupt and incompetent, and was pushing Pakistan to tilt even more towards a religious hard line. Be that as it may, he was the democratically elected Prime Minister of the country. If Imran didn’t like his policies (and 90% of the country didn’t), he should’ve led a campaign to defeat him at the polls. Instead, he supported the military in toppling democracy. If a politician in any other country where democracy is practiced had done the same thing as Imran, his legitimacy to govern would forever be tarnished. In Pakistan, Imran is treated like the savior of democracy, and today every other sentence from Imran’s mouth is about the will of the people and practicing democratic principles! Also, after consistently accusing Altaf Hussain of murder and even filing a case against him, he has since softened his stance. Why even consider aligning yourself with “murderers” Mr. Khan? Inconsistent much?

Imran also loves to attack the character of his political rivals. He advocates personal responsibility and doing the right thing. Of course what Imran forgets to mention is none of that actually applies to him. The Sita White affair is proof of that. Imran conceived an illegitimate child with Sita White, Tyrian, and then denied being the father. He lost a paternity suit in 1997. To me, it is absolutely disgusting that he would run away from his responsibility like that. We all make mistakes and I don’t fault Imran for conceiving a child when he didn’t intend to. I do, however, fault him for abandoning said child and refusing to own up to his mistake. What moral standing does Imran have to criticize Zardari, Nawaz, or any other politician’s characters when he himself is no paradigm of virtue? Oh by the way, if anyone has the gall to attack him on the Sita White issue, Imran is not above responding with a racist joke (listen from 2:20 onwards). For those that don’t understand Urdu, Imran responds to a dark-skinned politician’s claim that Tyrian looks like him (Imran) by saying that if he went to Africa, he’s sure to find lots of children that look like the (dark-skinned) politician. Class personified!

Imran’s soft on extremism:

Imran has consistently been soft on extremist parties in Pakistan, as well as the Taliban. IMO, he only offers lip service about Taliban being evil terrorists. All I ask is that Imran only protest half as much against the act of terrorism that the Taliban commit as he does against the United States. Hey Imran, how about staging a dharna against the Taliban? Just once? Instead, he is willing to pick a gun and join them against the US! Let that sink in for a second. He is willing to join the same guys who routinely blow up innocent children, bomb schools and hospitals, and behead anyone who doesn’t wear a beard. He surrounds himself with extremists like Ejaz Chaudhry and Hamid Gul. He also formed an alliance in the past with one of the most hard-line extremist parties in Pakistan, the Jamat e Islami (until things turned sour later politically and they parted ways). Imran’s solution to ending terrorism is for America to withdraw from the subcontinent and to have “peace talks” with the Taliban. He ignores the fact that the Taliban took advantage of previous peace deals offered to them by Pakistan to regroup and plan even more attacks. And of course the Taliban will leave Pakistan alone if Pakistan leaves them alone. That’s what they want! To be left alone to commit atrocities without anyone stopping them. What Imran needs to understand is that the Taliban are butchers and monsters. We shouldn’t be making peace deals with them, we should be eradicating them.

 

[Fusion]

I actually have more to say about Imran's naive and dangerous foreign and economic policies, but I'll post that on another day. I'm sure I've written enough to leave the Imran fan boys seething with anger so I look forward to the rage.