Best All-Time First Class Team?

[pskov]

Which First Class team, i.e. English County, Australian State, West Indian island and so on, side can lay claim to having the greatest All-Time team in their own nation, and then further the best in the world? I've had a quick bash at picking a couple of likely contenders but I don't know enough about First Class cricket in South Africa or the sub-continent to do any of their sides.

Note: I am selecting overseas players who played for their county/state/province etc. for a significant number of years, such as Viv Richards did with Somerset or Zaheer Abbas with Gloucstershire. For example, Sachin Tendulkar is not in the Yorkshire selection because he only played for them for one season.

Yorkshire

Len Hutton
Geoff Boycott
Herbert Suttcliffe
Maurice Leyland
Wilfred Rhodes
Ray Illingworth*
Hedley Verity
Fred Trueman
Jimmy Binks+
Darren Gough
George Macaulay

Tremendous top 3, but the batting is a bit thin after that. By all accounts Binks was an exceptional glovesman, one of the best in history, but his lack of batting prowess doesn't help with the problem. Tempted to replace him with Blakey or Bairstow but decided not to. One stronger possiblity is to slip Michael Vaughan or Darren Lehmann in for one of the spinning all-rounders, but which one would you leave out?

Surrey

Jack Hobbs
John Edrich
Ken Barrington
Peter May
Douglas Jardine*
Mark Ramprakash
Alec Stewart+
Sylvester Clarke
Jim Laker
Alec Bedser
George Lohmann

Killer batting lineup, especially with numbers 8 and 9 being able to contribute with the bat also. Serious pace in the new ball attack too with the control of Laker allowing the quicks to rotate at one end. May and Jardine are both excellent candidates for the captaincy with Jardine being chose because I think he'd beat May up if he didn't get it.

New South Wales

Victor Trumper
Bob Simpson
Don Bradman
Doug Walters
Steve Waugh*
Richie Benaud
Steve Rixon+
Alan Davidson
Bill O'Reilly
Glenn McGrath
Fred Spofforth

The greatest player ever automatically makes this side a contender, even without factoring in the quality of the rest of team. Maybe another batsman could be added to bolster up the lower order marginally, but which one of the bowlers would you drop?

Barbados

Gordon Greenidge
Desmond Haynes
Everton Weeks
Clyde Walcott
Seymour Nurse
Gary Sobers*
David Murray+
Malcom Marshall
Charlie Griffith
Wes Hall
Joel Garner

To put it bluntly, no way in hell I would voulenteer to open up against that bowling attack!

Of course there are many other teams that can field very strong lineups indeed. Any All-Time Australian State side or West Indies island team will look pretty solid to say the least. I'm not sure if anyone could ever agree on which players to pick in each of the many teams one could think of, let alone decide which team is the best, but hey, it's more intersting than endlessly debating the Test teams.

 

[Julian87]

Get Gilchrist out of that NSW team quicksmart. Only played a couple of games and couldn't crack a first team spot, hence he went to WA.

 

[pskov]

Get Gilchrist out of that NSW team quicksmart. Only played a couple of games and couldn't crack a first team spot, hence he went to WA.

Oops, forgot he was a WA player. Was only looking at birthplace.

Edit: NSW don't seem to have ever had a truly great wicketkeeper. In comes the reliable Steve Rixon.

 

[Julian87]

That's better, Phil Emery would be very close to Rixon. I thought he was better than Healy.

 

[vic_orthdox]

Victoria, mostly from the top of my head:

1. Bill Ponsford
2. Bill Lawry
3. Neil Harvey
4. Dean Jones
5. Warwick Armstrong*
6. Keith Miller
7. Darren Berry+
8. Shane Warne
9. Merv Hughes
10. Paul Reiffel
11. Max Walker

Can't currently think of a keeper, and I reckon there may be a few better pace bowlers than those listed. I'm pretty sure that despite being Tasmanian, Max Walker played, if not all, most of his cricket with Victoria. With apologies to Hugh Trumble, Keith Stackpole, Paul Sheahan, Ian Redpath, Jack Ryder, Chuck Fleetwood Smith, and Sam Loxton.

 

[NZTailender]

Berry for keeper, surely?

 

[vic_orthdox]

Berry for keeper, surely?

Yeah, probably. But I was thinking whether we've had a keeper play for Australia. May as well edit him in, and if there's one who I've overlooked I can put him in later.

I think that some of those players may be out of position, but I wasn't really aware of where some of the older players preferred to bat.

 

[sideshowtim]

I can't do first-class, but I can tell you one of the finest List A sides ever assembled:

Canberra Comets:

Paul Evans
Mike Veletta
Brad Haddin (wk)
Mark Higgs
Peter Solway
Stuart Karppinen
Ian Garrity
Justin Williams
Merv Hughes
Darryle Macdonald

 

[JBMAC]

New South Wales

Victor Trumper
Bob Simpson
Don Bradman
Doug Walters
Steve Waugh*
Richie Benaud
Steve Rixon+
Alan Davidson
Bill O'Reilly
Glenn McGrath
Fred Spofforth

The greatest player ever automatically makes this side a contender, even without factoring in the quality of the rest of team. Maybe another batsman could be added to bolster up the lower order marginally, but which one of the bowlers would you drop?

Bradman played the majority of his Shield Cricket for South Australia.So you need to find another batsman anyway

 

[JBMAC]

Best Queensland Side

1.Sam Trimble
2.Bill Brown
3.Stuart Law
4.Ken Mackay
5.Peter Burge
6.Greg Richie
7.Wally Grout[keeper]
8.Tom Veivers
9.Carl Rackeman
10.Craig McDermott
11.Geoff Dymock
12.Phillip Carlson.[12th man]

This side is completely HOMEGROWN...No Surti,Richards,Hall,Chappell,Border or even Thommo

 

[chaminda_00]

Hayden? Healy?

 

[JBMAC]

Hayden? Healy?

Trimble and Brown far ahead of Hayden....Grout the superior keeper to Healy

 

[JBMAC]

Notable names missing from NSW side...Lawson,Whitney,Border,Thompson,Lindwall( who also played Fullback for St.George Dragons)Matthews and O'Neill.

 

[sideshowtim]

Bradman played the majority of his Shield Cricket for South Australia.So you need to find another batsman anyway

He certainly played for NSW for enough years to justify his selection in an all-time XI though. Certainly. Plus, he was born there and played all his junior cricket there.

 

[vic_orthdox]

Agreed with sideshowtim here. And Border belongs in the QLD side; although you most certainly have the right to pick a fully homegrown side. If you wanted to pick the best team from QLD though, Border has to be there.

 

[pskov]

Notable names missing from NSW side...Lawson,Whitney,Border,Thompson,Lindwall( who also played Fullback for St.George Dragons)Matthews and O'Neill.

Border is definitley a QLD player, he only played about two seasons for NSW as a youngster compared to 15 or so for Queensland. For a comparison to Bradman, the don played his first 6 years with NSW before playing another 10 or so with SA, and the 6 he played with NSW were at the peak of his powers. Lawson, Matthewsm Thompson and Lindwall were all considered but don't see who they would displace to get in the side. Perhaps on a seaming or very bouncy wicket bring in Lindwall for O'Reilly.

 

[JBMAC]

So do the rest of the others I mentioned..Fancy leaving Viv Richards out...but the team is homegrown..NO imports

 

[vic_orthdox]

Border is definitley a QLD player, he only played about two seasons for NSW as a youngster compared to 15 or so for Queensland. For a comparison to Bradman, the don played his first 6 years with NSW before playing another 10 or so with SA, and the 6 he played with NSW were at the peak of his powers. Lawson, Matthewsm Thompson and Lindwall were all considered but don't see who they would displace to get in the side. Perhaps on a seaming or very bouncy wicket bring in Lindwall for O'Reilly.

Is Benaud a good enough number 6 though? I guess you do have Davison at 8, but still.

 

[The Sean]

Which First Class team, i.e. English County, Australian State, West Indian island and so on, side can lay claim to having the greatest All-Time team in their own nation, and then further the best in the world? I've had a quick bash at picking a couple of likely contenders but I don't know enough about First Class cricket in South Africa or the sub-continent to do any of their sides.

Note: I am selecting overseas players who played for their county/state/province etc. for a significant number of years, such as Viv Richards did with Somerset or Zaheer Abbas with Gloucstershire. For example, Sachin Tendulkar is not in the Yorkshire selection because he only played for them for one season.

Yorkshire

Len Hutton
Geoff Boycott
Herbert Suttcliffe
Maurice Leyland
Wilfred Rhodes
Ray Illingworth*
Hedley Verity
Fred Trueman
Jimmy Binks+
Darren Gough
George Macaulay

Tremendous top 3, but the batting is a bit thin after that. By all accounts Binks was an exceptional glovesman, one of the best in history, but his lack of batting prowess doesn't help with the problem. Tempted to replace him with Blakey or Bairstow but decided not to. One stronger possiblity is to slip Michael Vaughan or Darren Lehmann in for one of the spinning all-rounders, but which one would you leave out?

Surrey

Jack Hobbs
John Edrich
Ken Barrington
Peter May
Douglas Jardine*
Mark Ramprakash
Alec Stewart+
Sylvester Clarke
Jim Laker
Alec Bedser
George Lohmann

Killer batting lineup, especially with numbers 8 and 9 being able to contribute with the bat also. Serious pace in the new ball attack too with the control of Laker allowing the quicks to rotate at one end. May and Jardine are both excellent candidates for the captaincy with Jardine being chose because I think he'd beat May up if he didn't get it.

New South Wales

Victor Trumper
Bob Simpson
Don Bradman
Doug Walters
Steve Waugh*
Richie Benaud
Steve Rixon+
Alan Davidson
Bill O'Reilly
Glenn McGrath
Fred Spofforth

The greatest player ever automatically makes this side a contender, even without factoring in the quality of the rest of team. Maybe another batsman could be added to bolster up the lower order marginally, but which one of the bowlers would you drop?

Barbados

Gordon Greenidge
Desmond Haynes
Everton Weeks
Clyde Walcott
Seymour Nurse
Gary Sobers*
David Murray+
Malcom Marshall
Charlie Griffith
Wes Hall
Joel Garner

To put it bluntly, no way in hell I would voulenteer to open up against that bowling attack!

Of course there are many other teams that can field very strong lineups indeed. Any All-Time Australian State side or West Indies island team will look pretty solid to say the least. I'm not sure if anyone could ever agree on which players to pick in each of the many teams one could think of, let alone decide which team is the best, but hey, it's more intersting than endlessly debating the Test teams.

Great thread mate - for Barbados I'd drop the unlucky David Murray, bring in Frank Worrell and put big Clyde Walcott behind the stumps. I'd also consider Condrad Hunte. The NSW tail does seem to start a little early - perhaps a McCabe, Macartney or Murdoch to strengthen the batting, even at the expense of losing a bowler?

 

[andmark]

Barbados