Upbringing and attitudes?

[steds]

Reading the "Why does everyone love Monty?" thread, particularly this post, has set me off thinking. It's fair to say that our parents/grandparents are from a less PC era. Both my grandads refer to people of a different skin tone as "coloureds" among other things and one of them is partial to the phrase "nigger in the woodpile" to describe someone/thing different.
One was recently on a cruise (I don't have a bloody clue where he got the money to afford it from), and when describing it he happened to described one of the staff as a "blackie", whilst the other one was recently approached in the pub by a man who knew my grandad is quite knowledgable about and interested in cricket and was quite good once upon a time, and was asked "Hey Ged, what do you think of a bloke wearing one of those turbans playing for England?" before expressing his disgust and saying he should be playing for India if he wants to wear a turban.

While I am certain that there is no malice in either of my grandfathers (not sure about the other bloke), I have to ask your opinions about how people are brought up. It was a less PC era, as I've mentioned, but do old habits really die that hard? And is it that, in the examples I have given, people in predominantly white british communities (I assume St Helens isn't the only place with people like my grandparents) were brought up ignorant, using such words thinking they were harmless, or were they brought up to be that bit racist?

 

[Jamee999]

Probably a bit from column A, and a bit from column B, tbh.

 

[Langeveldt]

Good post, I often find that my wealthy mothers side of the family are very racist and intolerant, whereas my working class dads side are quite the opposite, very warm and friendly..

I spent a lot of my upbringing in post apartheid South Africa, and the attitudes of the people on my mothers side, as well as people from parts of England that have no experience of other racial groups really surprising sometimes.. According to my girlfriend, 90% of how a person turns out in later life is caused by their environment from 0-5 years

 

[open365]

Your parents are the single biggest influence on your life, so yes, i would say old habbits can die that hard.

 

[silentstriker]

Yea, parents are the biggest. As for attitudes, I've been called a 'sand nigger' a couple of times, and more often that not, it just makes me laugh.

 

[Matteh]

I live in a pretty much racially pure area. Noone really bad mouths other races so much because there's hardly anyone around to bad mouth, but you just know that when they go to Birmingham they're frothing.

 

[PhoenixFire]

Yea, parents are the biggest. As for attitudes, I've been called a 'sand nigger' a couple of times, and more often that not, it just makes me laugh.

You were preaching to me not to long ago, about what a hideous word it was, and how in no circumstances can it be used lightly, yet you say you laughed?

 

[silentstriker]

You were preaching to me not to long ago, about what a hideous word it was, and how in no circumstances can it be used lightly, yet you say you laughed?

I laughed at the ignorance and racism of the other guy. Definately not something you call anyone else without rightly being labeled a bigot and a racist.

The guys who said it weren't exactly the type of guys I would ever have a conversation with or give the time of day. I laugh it off because otherwise I'd have to turn their teeth into a bunch of chiclets.

 

[andyc]

Yeah my grandparents are a bit like that, in terms of how they talk about people who look different. They mean no malice, as you said, but I'd much prefer it if they didn't do it.

 

[pasag]

Had a pretty heated discussion about something like my mother said a while back with my parents and grandparents, needless to say there's a huge generation gap. Some of the stuff they say has my mouth open, no jokes. Laden with irony and hypocrisy as well I might add. I'm pretty happy that from an early age I've rejected all those mentalities and the dangerously close to Pauline Hanson thought process from those who should have been teaching me better.

Anyways, have heaps to say on this but I'll leave it at there, just to note that for me to not become a product of my (home/community) environment has been abit of a struggle.

 

[silentstriker]

Had a pretty heated discussion about something like my mother said a while back with my parents and grandparents, needless to say there's a huge generation gap. Some of the stuff they say has my mouth open, no jokes. Laden with irony and hypocrisy as well I might add. I'm pretty happy that from an early age I've rejected all those mentalities and the dangerously close to Pauline Hanson thought process from those who should have been teaching me better.

Anyways, have heaps to say on this but I'll leave it at there, just to note that for me to not become a product of my (home/community) environment has been abit of a struggle.

Thats a good point. The community I grew up in was very near a muslim community and though outwardly everything was OK most of the time, it was still very isolated from each other (a cricket game now and then), and there was a huge underlying friction and hypocricy between the two. At least from my (Hindu) side.

When the city I grew up in, became the center of one of the worst riots in history...sadly, I wasn't suprised.

 

[Tom Halsey]

I've genuinely heard no trace of racism or anything from grandparents or anyone - they're very careful what they say.

I dislike political correctness anyway.

 

[silentstriker]

I've genuinely heard no trace of racism or anything from grandparents or anyone - they're very careful what they say.

I dislike political correctness anyway.

I think that political correctness and racism are two very separate things. Some things that people claim to be 'politically incorrect' are in fact racist, and 'correctness' has nothing to do with it.

 

[pasag]

One of my pet hates is people who think they can say whatever they want and then when people call them out on it, they cry "PC Police!". Seriously, people that go on about how much political correctness is killing society, annoy me endlessly.

 

[Tom Halsey]

I think that political correctness and racism are two very separate things. Some things that people claim to be 'politically incorrect' are in fact racist, and 'correctness' has nothing to do with it.

Yes they are.

My grandparents can be very un-PC (as are just about all of my family) at times, but I've never heard anything that could even be construed as even mildly racist.

 

[Tom Halsey]

One of my pet hates is people who think they can say whatever they want and then when people call them out on it, they cry "PC Police!". Seriously, people that go on about how much political correctness is killing society, annoy me endlessly.

It's not "killing society" as such, but the levels of it where I am are at times ridiculous.

 

[pasag]

It's not "killing society" as such, but the levels of it where I am are at times ridiculous.

Yeah, it does get out of control sometimes, but I'm not sure why there are all these negative connotations around the term 'PC', it really isn't a bad thing imo. I find, half the time when someone is trying to cover up their bigotry they start waffling on about PC and the like.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

Old habits die hard is really just an excuse, IMO. After a certain point in life you should really be able to determine the appropriateness of your parents' views pretty easily, and seperate yourself from them if necessary. Obviously the way your parents view the world will have an impact on you over time, but there's plenty of experiences in life that have nothing to do with your parents that you can base your own opinions on, for most people at least.

People who follow in their parents footsteps in that "it's just how I was brought up" way do so because they want to, whether it's related to racism or child raising or whatever. It's not like it's involuntary.

Obviously with older people you can cite different social standards and so on as a possible reason for pretty intolerant views, but there were also plenty of people around in the same era that weren't bigots. Just because it was more common doesn't mean it's excusable.

 

[Tom Halsey]

Yeah, it does get out of control sometimes, but I'm not sure why there are all these negative connotations around the term 'PC', it really isn't a bad thing imo. I find, half the time when someone is trying to cover up their bigotry they start waffling on about PC and the like.

There are things it is good for. I was watching one of those TV countdown list of all the most controversial movies/programs in history, and there were some from a while ago which I thought went way overboard on racist jokes and the like, and made me think that it was a good thing that the world has moved on.

Some, however, I didn't have a problem with and made me think people were over-sensitive.

It's all about a balance really.

 

[silentstriker]

There are things it is good for. I was watching one of those TV countdown list of all the most controversial movies/programs in history, and there were some from a while ago which I thought went way overboard on racist jokes and the like, and made me think that it was a good thing that the world has moved on.

Some, however, I didn't have a problem with and made me think people were over-sensitive.

It's all about a balance really.

To be honest, its always easier to think other people are over-sensitive. They might have a very legitimate reason for feeling the way they do. I wouldn't presume to tell you when you should be offended or not.

With that said, you don't have a right not to be offended. And I am fine with jokes and the like, but there is a line, and sometimes its blurry.