Final - England v New Zealand

[mr_mister]

Yep. The super over is a tiebreaker, which kinda tells you that the match was tied.

Shh don't tell sledger that

 

[Athlai]

Statsguru agrees

Team records | One-Day Internationals | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

 

[mr_mister]

When Boult stepped on the rope I got flashbacks to Reiffel pushing a catch over the ropes in '99, also in the penultimate over. Crazy both resulted in ties as well

 

[TheJediBrah]

Shh don't tell sledger that

I thought sledger was supposed to be a good poster. How would he not know that it was a tie?

 

[morgieb]

I thought sledger was supposed to be a good poster. How would he not know that it was a tie?

no comment

 

[TheBrand]

Get me on the ICC so I can implement rule changes haha.

-If you're gonna have Super Overs, keep doing them until there's a winner (I don't actually mind this option)
-Deciding a winner based on boundaries scored or wickets taken is not ideal, they're both arbitrary. Maybe even dot balls is arbitrary.
-Deciding based on group stage result between two teams shouldn't be used either; doesn't have the pressure of a final attached to the group stage match. Plus makes other results irrelevant (NZ thrashed Sri Lanka, but England lost to Sri Lanka)
-NRR is still the fairest way to decide teams who are tied on points as it rewards the team who has been most consistent over the tournament. (I know that seems in contrary to my above point, but the knockout games shouldn't be affected by group stage games, the stakes are higher)
-If the final is a washout the trophy is shared is a good rule. Fine with that.

I'm fine with England winning under the circumstances and the current rules but definitely should take steps to ensure if it ever happens again it won't be as farcical.

 

[Greenlite]

Get me on the ICC so I can implement rule changes haha.

-If you're gonna have Super Overs, keep doing them until there's a winner (I don't actually mind this option)
-Deciding a winner based on boundaries scored or wickets taken is not ideal, they're both arbitrary. Maybe even dot balls is arbitrary.
-Deciding based on group stage result between two teams shouldn't be used either; doesn't have the pressure of a final attached to the group stage match. Plus makes other results irrelevant (NZ thrashed Sri Lanka, but England lost to Sri Lanka)
-NRR is still the fairest way to decide teams who are tied on points as it rewards the team who has been most consistent over the tournament. (I know that seems in contrary to my above point, but the knockout games shouldn't be affected by group stage games, the stakes are higher)
-If the final is a washout the trophy is shared is a good rule. Fine with that.

I'm fine with England winning under the circumstances and the current rules but definitely should take steps to ensure if it ever happens again it won't be as farcical.

Ya but I think ICC will just do an up yours, stand by the rule makers, and reflect nothing.

Imagine unintentionally elbowing the ball into the net in extra time to win the football world cup lol

 

[The Hutt Rec]

Its pretty obvious that Will young will come into the setup as soon as he is back. He could be the replacement for outgoing player such as rosco (no one can really replace rosco tho). If Gup goes, can't relly think of any batsman in the domestic scene at the moment who can take his place. George worker?? For our good, I hope either one of rosco or gup are still in the squad and firing in 4 years time.

Ross has said he wants to play till the next World Cup at this stage ...

Guptill ... might be close to the end, I reckon.

 

[The Hutt Rec]

Get me on the ICC so I can implement rule changes haha.

-If you're gonna have Super Overs, keep doing them until there's a winner (I don't actually mind this option)
-Deciding a winner based on boundaries scored or wickets taken is not ideal, they're both arbitrary. Maybe even dot balls is arbitrary.
-Deciding based on group stage result between two teams shouldn't be used either; doesn't have the pressure of a final attached to the group stage match. Plus makes other results irrelevant (NZ thrashed Sri Lanka, but England lost to Sri Lanka)
-NRR is still the fairest way to decide teams who are tied on points as it rewards the team who has been most consistent over the tournament. (I know that seems in contrary to my above point, but the knockout games shouldn't be affected by group stage games, the stakes are higher)
-If the final is a washout the trophy is shared is a good rule. Fine with that.

I'm fine with England winning under the circumstances and the current rules but definitely should take steps to ensure if it ever happens again it won't be as farcical.

I’d be surprised if the rules for a tie were the same for the next tournament, and I think immediate dead ball from deflected throws off a batsman will happen pretty quickly as well.

I think DRS needs to be looked at as well, but I’m not so confident that will happen.

And same as you, not said in any sour grapes way, those were the rules we were playing under on the day, so I’m fine with how it ended up. I just think they’re pretty obvious fixes.

 

[Bahnz]

Ya but I think ICC will just do an up yours, stand by the rule makers, and reflect nothing.

Imagine unintentionally elbowing the ball into the net in extra time to win the football world cup lol

Nah, I reckon they'll stand by the rules now, and then quietly change them in a couple of years time once people have stopped caring. Makes it look less like they ****ed up.

 

[NZTailender]

Nah, I reckon they'll stand by the rules now, and then quietly change them in a couple of years time once people have stopped caring. Makes it look less like they ****ed up.

This. Expect to see a change in two years, just prior to the T20 WC maybe.

 

[Greenlite]

Ross has said he wants to play till the next World Cup at this stage ...

Guptill ... might be close to the end, I reckon.

Hope Ross can play in the next one, though still need to develop a great back up just in case he gets injured or going Guppy 2019 mode

Nah, I reckon they'll stand by the rules now, and then quietly change them in a couple of years time once people have stopped caring. Makes it look less like they ****ed up.

This. Expect to see a change in two years, just prior to the T20 WC maybe.

True, nobody loses their jobs or look bad that way.

If they don't change someone like Kohli is gonna knock the ball into the boundary, apologizes, and go holy s*** we just won the world cup yay

I can see them doing something stupid like the number of reviews lost as a tiebreaker, they're about 3 steps behind other sports lol

 

[zorax]

As a neutral it's easy for me to say I want the trophy shared, and if any game deserves to be a tie it was this one. But if I were a player in the game, or involved with a team, or even just supporting a team in the final, I think I'd want a conclusive decision one way or another.

Not sure what's the best way to determine a winner yet, mind. ATM I lean towards awarding the trophy to the winner of the group stage H2H, or higher ranked side in the group stage, or the side entering the WC with the highest ODI ranking. But they each have their flaws. Maybe a combination of all 3? The team that is superior on 2 or all counts is declared champions?

 

[Greenlite]

As a neutral it's easy for me to say I want the trophy shared, and if any game deserves to be a tie it was this one. But if I were a player in the game, or involved with a team, or even just supporting a team in the final, I think I'd want a conclusive decision one way or another.

Not sure what's the best way to determine a winner yet, mind. ATM I lean towards awarding the trophy to the winner of the group stage H2H, or higher ranked side in the group stage, or the side entering the WC with the highest ODI ranking. But they each have their flaws. Maybe a combination of all 3? The team that is superior on 2 or all counts is declared champions?

I don't mind sharing the trophy method, but it'd be so weird to play out, so Boult vs Stoke last ball 2 to win, 1 for draw, so he runs the first one and becomes joint world champions, does he then run 2 to deny the kiwis? Would he be a d*** if he does? So much to think about lol

I feel it needs to be a decisive finish, like in football you have penalty shoot out, nothing ambiguos about that, they only do the group stage yellow cards etc if all the goals/points etc are tied in the first round.

But they don't go back and say hey the team with the most shots on target get to win the tournament if it's a tie after 5 penalty shoot out, they keep going until keeper vs keeper lol.

 

[Bahnz]

But they don't go back and say hey the team with the most shots on target get to win the tournament if it's a tie after 5 penalty shoot out, they keep going until keeper vs keeper lol.

Yep, and I'd want this for the rolling super overs option. Has to be a new bowler every over, so eventually you get down to Latham and Buttler bowling their wobbly mediums with Bairstow and Nicholls doing the keeping duties.

 

[Greenlite]

Yep, and I'd want this for the rolling super overs option. Has to be a new bowler every over, so eventually you get down to Latham and Buttler bowling their wobbly mediums with Bairstow and Nicholls doing the keeping duties.

Bairstow would totally nail Nicholls skill wise lol

 

[CM Punk]

Are there any promising younger players who played in the U19s who could make the step up?

Whatever happened to Finn Allen?

Also, will the likes of Boult, Fergusan, Henry etc. be good enough next world cup? They'll be in their 30s and most fast bowlers don't seem to last at this level as long as batsmen (correct me if I'm wrong).

 

[thundaboult]

Are there any promising younger players who played in the U19s who could make the step up?

Whatever happened to Finn Allen?

Also, will the likes of Boult, Fergusan, Henry etc. be good enough next world cup? They'll be in their 30s and most fast bowlers don't seem to last at this level as long as batsmen (correct me if I'm wrong).

Better off discussing the 2023 blackcap squad in the unofficial new zealand blackcaps thread. Whole lot goin on over there about it. Allen's got a hell of a chance to make it I believe.

 

[GIMH]

Sharing the trophy is such a bad concept for me. Both sides would (rightly) feel like losers.

Leave that sort of thing for primary school sports days. Decide it however you want, but make sure it’s decided.

 

[wpdavid]

Sharing the trophy is such a bad concept for me. Both sides would (rightly) feel like losers.

Leave that sort of thing for primary school sports days. Decide it however you want, but make sure it’s decided.

Agreed, and there are numerous better ways than the most boundaries rule. Higher position in the group stage works when the sides were in the same group. Back in the day, fewer wickets lost wasn't unreasonable.



btw something I noticed yesterday when one of the news programmes showed the Stokes six where Boult tread on the boundary marker just before throwing the ball back in play. The NZ player closest to Boult immediately indicated the six instead of trying to take the catch or just getting the ball back to the keeper to restrict the runs. No idea which player he was, but what a star.