Gilchrist vs Flower as test bats

[ImpatientLime]

people thinking flower was in a different league are on drugs

the usual 'oh how easy is it putting up those numbers whilst playing with x, y and z'. lets just put an asterisk next to every aussie who played between 1995 and 2007.

 

[_00_deathscar]

people thinking flower was in a different league are on drugs

the usual 'oh how easy is it putting up those numbers whilst playing with x, y and z'. lets just put an asterisk next to every aussie who played between 1995 and 2007.

Both represent a different set of challenges, and not everyone's cut out for it.

Flower was a better bat than Gilchrist though - but Gilchrist was definitely more influential (not specifically to his team, doesn't get more influential than Flower, but more overall in terms of style, legacy etc).

I don't think there's huge margins in it (i.e. Pacific Ocean-sized) but Flower was the comfortably better bat, just not HUGELY comfortably so.

 

[TheJediBrah]

So poor. Even in this thread plenty of Australians have conceded that Flower is a better bat or at least on a similar level.

trundle is pretty dire these days tbh

can't believe I used to like that guy

 

[trundler]

trundle is pretty dire these days tbh

can't believe I used to like that guy

All your opinions suck lol roasted

 

[Aaron510]

This one is a hard one for me.

I wonder how Gilly would have done without Hayden/ponting/Waugh/Martin.

In the other hand, flower carried the entire teams batting line in his back!!

I would pick gilly though because I loved watching him bat!!

 

[Arachnodouche]

Flower had the better defense obviously but few can hold a candle to Gilchrist's strokeplay and sheer nervelessness.

 

[CodeOfWisden]

Flower easily....

Posters here don't really give importance what role a particular batsman has in his team.
Flower was Zimbabwes best batsman, the accumulator who made runs in all conditions. He had a bigger responsibility than gilchrist and he did exceptionally well. Gilchrist never had to bear the weight of his team.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Flower easily....

Posters here don't really give importance what role a particular batsman has in his team.
Flower was Zimbabwes best batsman, the accumulator who made runs in all conditions. He had a bigger responsibility than gilchrist and he did exceptionally well. Gilchrist never had to bear the weight of his team.

If you give too much importance to their role in the team then you can't really compare the 2 because their roles were so different.

One way to look at it would be how would each do in the other's role? You may not agree but I'd think Gilchrist would be more likely able to do what Flower did for Zimbabwe than Flower would have been able to do what Gilchrist did for Australia.

 

[ankitj]

That's very arbitrary TJB. Gilchrist was a dasher and a weak team doesn't "need" dashers. Would you say Zimbabwe would benefit from Sehwag more than Graeme Smith?

 

[TheJediBrah]

That's very arbitrary TJB. Gilchrist was a dasher and a weak team doesn't "need" dashers. Would you say Zimbabwe would benefit from Sehwag more than Graeme Smith?

Of course it's arbitrary. As I said it's just "one way to look at it".

 

[vcs]

I agree with TJB. Gilchrist would not have been able to do what Flower did for Zimbabwe, or vice versa, but history tells us that there have been a lot more players capable of doing what Flower did for Zimbabwe, compared to what Gilchrist did for Australia.

 

[Daemon]

I agree with TJB. Gilchrist would not have been able to do what Flower did for Zimbabwe, or vice versa, but history tells us that there have been a lot more players capable of doing what Flower did for Zimbabwe, compared to what Gilchrist did for Australia.

eh, there haven't been many teams like the one Gilchrist played for

 

[vcs]

Take your point, but Gilchrist wasn't coming in and throwing his bat at 400/5 and averaging 30@90 (which would still probably have been enough for that team). He was averaging 55+ after 60 Tests or so (upto Ashes 2005). Ended up with 45+.

 

[ankitj]

I misunderstood TJB's point. I thought he said Gilchrist would be more valuable to Zimbabwe than Flower would be for Australia.

But if we are talking about the "role played" then no one could play roles played by unconventional players anyway. Sehwag case in point.

 

[Coronis]

Idk maybe its just me but I can see Flower coming in and bashing quick runs more than Gilly ever being the guy to hunker down and shoulder the teams batting load.

 

[trundler]

Idk maybe its just me but I can see Flower coming in and bashing quick runs more than Gilly ever being the guy to hunker down and shoulder the teams batting load.

Yeah I'm much more inclined to believe this. Don't think Gilchrist would've averaged as much higher up the order. Flower wouldn't just played as the #5 if he'd been Australian and I admit that's an arbitrary way of looking at it.

 

[TNT]

Idk maybe its just me but I can see Flower coming in and bashing quick runs more than Gilly ever being the guy to hunker down and shoulder the teams batting load.

If you look at their innings especially above 50 runs Gilly is more likely to hunker down than Flower is going to come in and bash quick runs.

 

[stephen]

Gilchrist was basically an ATG bat plus being a fantastic keeper until 2005. After 2005 his batting output was the equivalent of a mediocre batsman but his keeping was still top notch petty much until his retirement. If you look at his career before his decline it's inarguable that he was the more talented batsman between him and Flower but looking at their careers as a whole Flower pulls out ahead by a decent margin.

But Flower's keeping was nowhere near Gilchrist's, which makes Gilly the better overall package by a fair way.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Idk maybe its just me but I can see Flower coming in and bashing quick runs more than Gilly ever being the guy to hunker down and shoulder the teams batting load.

Depends at what output. I can't see Flower doing at an average of 50+ like Gilchrist did for most of his career. I can see Gilchrist averaging 50 batting 5 for Zimbabwe at a strike rate of 55ish a lot easier. But again that's pure speculation on my part.

 

[Red Hill]

Yeah I'm much more inclined to believe this. Don't think Gilchrist would've averaged as much higher up the order. Flower wouldn't just played as the #5 if he'd been Australian and I admit that's an arbitrary way of looking at it.

Gilchrist is legitimately the sort of bloke who wouldn't care where he was sent in to bat. Open, 4, 7, 8, whatever. He'll just stride out and do his thing.