stephen
Well-known member
But I think it's fair to say that they fall a rung below the all time greats, which is the point.I'd take Willis and Pollock ahead of either in a heartbeat. Tyson and Bishop too if you could guarantee fitness.
But I think it's fair to say that they fall a rung below the all time greats, which is the point.I'd take Willis and Pollock ahead of either in a heartbeat. Tyson and Bishop too if you could guarantee fitness.
Do you think England would have taken that series without Flintoff's bowling? Overrated the rest of his career certainly but anything but in that series.Yeah I always liked Hoggard the most of the 2005 quartet. Sijo was too injury prone, Harmison too hit and miss, Flintoff too overrated but Hoggard was a toiler who earned every wicket he took. I remember him being the pick of the English bowlers in the Amazing Adelaide test when Australia piled on 550.
England scraped through even with Flintoff's performance. But over his career he was overrated. Never had a great tour of Australia and only had one decent ashes even at home.Do you think England would have taken that series without Flintoff's bowling? Overrated the rest of his career certainly but anything but in that series.
He was phenomenal in that series, one of the great all-round performances in a series ever. His first innings ton in the 4th test clinched the series for Eng.England scraped through even with Flintoff's performance. But over his career he was overrated. Never had a great tour of Australia and only had one decent ashes even at home.
Hoggard was a workhorse who succeeded in spite of his limitations. Flintoff was lazy and ill disciplined but who happened to have one ATG ashes series.
He had more than just that one ATG series.England scraped through even with Flintoff's performance. But over his career he was overrated. Never had a great tour of Australia and only had one decent ashes even at home.
Hoggard was a workhorse who succeeded in spite of his limitations. Flintoff was lazy and ill disciplined but who happened to have one ATG ashes series.
On top of your 20, possibly..So essentially, it is the top 7 batsmen, top 5 quicks, top 2 spinners and one wicket keeper batsman. I would add Imran Khan and Jacques Kallis as they were great in one skill and really good in secondary one as well.
So, in no particular order,
Don Bradman
Garry Sobers
Vivian Richards
Sachin Tendulkar
Brian Lara
Jack Hobbs
Len Hutton
Malcolm Marshall
Richard Hadlee
Glenn Mcgrath
Curtly Ambrose
Dale Steyn
Shane Warne
Muttiah Muralitharan
Adam Gilchrist
Imran Khan
Jacques Kallis
17 players. One could add Hammond, Headley and Miller to make it 20.
I haven't considered pre WWI players as the game was so different back then.
And this is the thing for me. There's lots of players on a similar sort of level to bonafide ATGs and so in the interest of consistency my list gets too big. It's subjective of course but imo if you have Sanga then Dravid and YK have to be there too. Same with say, Steyn and Donald.For most of their careers Ponting, Lara and Tendulkar were considered very close. At age 33 Pointing had an average of a touch under 60. He fell away at the end but surely if you're including Lara and Tendulkar you'd also include Ponting, despite him playing on after his eye went.