***Official: Countdown to the 2017-2018 Ashes***

[stephen]

In India Cummins was bowling on tracks which didn't suit his style of bowling. He took 8 wickets @ 30 in three innings.

Wait until he gets to bowl on decks that favour him.

 

[stephen]

How he bounced out those batters in the third test was incredible. You just can't do that on a low slow wicket.

 

[Burgey]

Anyone actually think our batsman would be more comfortable against the pace of cummins as pose to the consistent line and length of bird?
Our middle lower order could score quick runs off cummins' short aggressive bowling. Similar to what jadega done

Like they did off Johnson last time they toured here?

 

[zorax]

Jadeja > England's middle order

 

[Hennybogan]

Assuming the middle order is Bairstow Stokes Ali Woakes .. I'd say it's strong.

 

[Gob]

Nah, I'm struggling to get on board with this.

I'm not going to argue with anyone on Haze.....I reckon he's the best quick in the world right now so he's definitely an Ace card for the Aussies. But I do think the rest of the Aussie bowling attack is starting to get overrated based on potential and ceilings and not proven results.

Guy's like Patto, Cummins and Bird are too hard to rate (Starc less so) because we just don't know yet........all we know is that in brief glimpses they look the goods. This is especially true when people are claiming they are "streets ahead" of the likes of Anderson and Broad, who we know are class bowlers because they have been doing it for a long period consistently. They also for the record have not falling off a cliff like it seems some people are believing, last calendar year Jimmy took 41 @23 and Broad 48 @26.

Pattinson was gun whenever he played except for those two Ashes tests. Cummins has hardly played but anyone who has seen him bowl would know that he is quality. I can understand how some one can feel bit irritated when two blokes who have twenty tests in between them considered to be streets ahead over two blokes with what 800+ wickets? But they really are in these conditions and its a matter of time really. Jimmy struggled in Aust even at the best of times and now he is old. Broad will hold his own but that won't be enough and i don't rate the rest. There's a good chance both Pato and Cum will be injured by the time Ashes rolls but if they are fit they will take poles.

Long story short this Ashes will be a throw back to early 00s.

 

[Gob]

And talking about streets ahead

 

[Adders]

Pattinson was gun whenever he played except for those two Ashes tests. Cummins has hardly played but anyone who has seen him bowl would know that he is quality. I can understand how some one can feel bit irritated when two blokes who have twenty tests in between them considered to be streets ahead over two blokes with what 800+ wickets? But they really are in these conditions and its a matter of time really. Jimmy struggled in Aust even at the best of times and now he is old. Broad will hold his own but that won't be enough and i don't rate the rest. There's a good chance both Pato and Cum will be injured by the time Ashes rolls but if they are fit they will take poles.

Long story short this Ashes will be a throw back to early 00s.

Don't really know why both you and stephen are trying to convince me that Cummins is a quality bowler and a serious talent........I've never said otherwise. But the bloke has played 3 test matches FFS and you are talking him up as being better than blokes who have had success over well over 100. This is on par with rating Hanscombe or Vogues for eg as better than Ponting imo.

Look you've got every right to be excited about the potential of these young bowlers and no doubt about it I wish England had some talent that looked as good coming through. I'm not irritated by the bolded but I just think comments like Australia's bowling attack is "streets ahead of England's" need some perspective for that very reason. And that is without considering the odds of 3 of these guy's actually making it through 5 tests without breaking.

Last time Eng were in Aus our bowlers did their job and were in no way responsible for the 5 zip score line.......and I'd expect the same three to be just as capable this time around. People have been saying Jimmy is finished and passed it for about 3 years and he keeps on keeping on.

 

[StephenZA]

Don't really know why both you and stephen are trying to convince me that Cummins is a quality bowler and a serious talent........I've never said otherwise. But the bloke has played 3 test matches FFS and you are talking him up as being better than blokes who have had success over well over 100. This is on par with rating Hanscombe or Vogues for eg as better than Ponting imo.

Look you've got every right to be excited about the potential of these young bowlers and no doubt about it I wish England had some talent that looked as good coming through. I'm not irritated by the bolded but I just think comments like Australia's bowling attack is "streets ahead of England's" need some perspective for that very reason. And that is without considering the odds of 3 of these guy's actually making it through 5 tests without breaking.

Last time Eng were in Aus our bowlers did their job and were in no way responsible for the 5 zip score line.......and I'd expect the same three to be just as capable this time around. People have been saying Jimmy is finished and passed it for about 3 years and he keeps on keeping on.

I don`t know, there is some pretty good pace bowling stock coming though here in SA.....

 

[Adders]

This is good to know.

 

[Daemon]

haze patto and bird being 'streets ahead' of broad anderson and woakes is obviously incorrect.

 

[Adders]

haze patto and bird being 'streets ahead' of broad anderson and woakes is obviously incorrect.

And Stokes who took 15 @ 32 in his debut series there last time.

 

[Gnske]

haze patto and bird being 'streets ahead' of broad anderson and woakes is obviously incorrect.

You're right they're whole post-codes ahead.

Woakes and Blanderson are useless without muh swing. Even casuals realize this and surely you must as well.

 

[stephen]

I thought Anderson was a huge find for England from as far back as 2004, when I first saw him in the ODI setup. I still rate him as being a very fine bowler, though not up there with Steyn or McGrath. Broad is very good as well.

But Haze, Cummins, Pattinson and Starc all have it in them to become ATG fast bowlers. THAT is why we're so excited.

 

[Gob]

Don't really know why both you and stephen are trying to convince me that Cummins is a quality bowler and a serious talent........I've never said otherwise. But the bloke has played 3 test matches FFS and you are talking him up as being better than blokes who have had success over well over 100. This is on par with rating Hanscombe or Vogues for eg as better than Ponting imo.

Look you've got every right to be excited about the potential of these young bowlers and no doubt about it I wish England had some talent that looked as good coming through. I'm not irritated by the bolded but I just think comments like Australia's bowling attack is "streets ahead of England's" need some perspective for that very reason. And that is without considering the odds of 3 of these guy's actually making it through 5 tests without breaking.

Last time Eng were in Aus our bowlers did their job and were in no way responsible for the 5 zip score line.......and I'd expect the same three to be just as capable this time around. People have been saying Jimmy is finished and passed it for about 3 years and he keeps on keeping on.

Well last time Jimmy picked up 14 wickets across five tests @ 43 while striking at 81.6 so lets not go there.

Think i should've clarified bit about the playing conditions. Aust bowling attack is streets ahead at bowling in Aust than their English counter parts. James Anderson has had a long and successful career while Pat C is at the very beginning of his and god knows how long he will stay fit but if i get to chose between him and Anderson with the guarantee of Cummins staying fit for five tests that are played in Australia, I'd pick Cummins with my eyes shut every time and that is based entirely on how they bowl atm and the playing conditions and nothing on Jimmy's 400+ wickets.

 

[Gob]

You're right they're whole post-codes ahead.

Woakes and Blanderson are useless without muh swing. Even casuals realize this and surely you must as well.

Good now that we are going to fight over the superiority of the attacks for the next 8 months. Close the thread

 

[Adders]

Well last time Jimmy picked up 14 wickets across five tests @ 43 while striking at 81.6 so lets not go there.

Think i should've clarified bit about the playing conditions. Aust bowling attack is streets ahead at bowling in Aust than their English counter parts. James Anderson has had a long and successful career while Pat C is at the very beginning of his and god knows how long he will stay fit but if i get to chose between him and Anderson with the guarantee of Cummins staying fit for five tests that are played in Australia, I'd pick Cummins with my eyes shut every time and that is based entirely on how they bowl atm and the playing conditions and nothing on Jimmy's 400+ wickets.

So you're essentially saying that Cummins is streets ahead of Englands bowlers in Australia conditions............yet he has never even played a test match there. Ok.

 

[Adders]

I thought Anderson was a huge find for England from as far back as 2004, when I first saw him in the ODI setup. I still rate him as being a very fine bowler, though not up there with Steyn or McGrath. Broad is very good as well.

But Haze, Cummins, Pattinson and Starc all have it in them to become ATG fast bowlers. THAT is why we're so excited.

Errrrr, I've already said that you have every right to be excited........and I would be to.

The point is you are rating these young bowlers on potential and what they might end up doing and talk right now of the 3 of them being ATG is just ****ing ridiculous. Especially Cummins who has managed 3 tests over the course of nearly 6 years isn't it?

Edit:

I'm going to stop now as the superstitious **** in me is believing that I'm going to be responsible for PC doing a Mitch Johnson 2013/14 on us..........and even if does ftr it wont make anything I've said wrong.

 

[stephen]

I saw Pattinson demolish QLD's stacked top order at AB oval. He hit the deck hard and was quick. If he's bowling like that come November and gets picked he's going to be a real handful.

 

[Adders]

And I saw Stuart Broad demolish Australias entire order at Trent Bridge taking 8/15............if he bowls like that then you are ****ed.

Edit:

No one here is saying any of your bowlers are not or will not be a handful. Why do you think I'm trying to talk them down?