*Official* Pool A Discussion

[krkode]

How about we stop looking at the ifs. They didn't happen, and they aren't going to happen now, so why worry/argue about it?

At the end of the day, the better team won, and if luck/lights make a better team, then so be it.

If these two meet again soon, and lady luck picks England, maybe they'll win - and then, they will have been the better team.

 

[Choora]

Completely agreed!

 

[full_length]

krkode: right on the mark there.


That's why I said that we'd probably have won it batting second too. There's no way you can prove me wrong is there?
The guys who're saying we'd have lost if we'd only lost the toss are assuming that England would have done as well as we did with the bat. I think not.

At the end of the day, India outplayed England and were deserved winners.


Postscript: Given Caddick's big speak prematch, he and Anderson would have been taken to the cleaners irrespective of where and in what conditinos the Indian innings was played in.

 

[full_length]

And Eddie, I think India has proved to be a clearly better side than England in the ODI format over the past year.
No matter what Caddick says, we've beaten England quite convincingly quite a few times, while other matches have been close some going this way and some the other.
We did have a worry going into this match due to the form of a few batsmen, but they pulled together.


Anil any evidence yet on the teamspirit ?

 

[marc71178]

Agreed to most of your observation except i thing Pakistan would have won the match ahd they batted first against England. I agree with you on their batting problems, but even if had their batsmen had scored just 150, their bowlers would had defended such a small target under lights.

This D/N games shouldn't be a part of WC!

For the first time in a long time warrior, I agree entirely with what you just said!

 

[marc71178]

Postscript: Given Caddick's big speak prematch, he and Anderson would have been taken to the cleaners irrespective of where and in what conditinos the Indian innings was played in.

Not if the ball swung around for them like it did under the lights on Saturday.

 

[luckyeddie]

Great to see that, as cricket fans we can put petty differences aside (like "we beat you so there:P ") and agree that these day-nighters are a lottery.

 

[Rik]

People can say that DN Cricket is the future and will bring the crowds...but not if results are decided by the toss. Also come on, when you can play the game in the natural light in the day why don't you? DN Cricket has no place in England because the ball swings too much, and from what I've seen of this WC it doesn't belong in SA either...

 

[krkode]

Well, sure Day-Nighters are lotteries, but neither you nor I can accurately predict a winner IF it wasn't a day-nighter. So why argue about it?

I don't think we can do anything about D/Ns being in the World Cup, so why don't we just watch what's there

If there's some mega-petition that we can do, that will remove D/Ns from England and SA, how about we do that - because I'm all for it, because some day India might bat under lights and I'll be feeling just like you are.

 

[Anil]

Anil any evidence yet on the teamspirit ?

F_L, I agreed initially that this is a team of mercurial quality and could very well prove its detractors wrong and i am not one. I am just a fan who was really disapppointed that the team didn't play to even half its potential. The team certainly looks like it has tremendous teamspirit right now. I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that the fans back home behaved in such an unruly and violent manner after the Aus debacle. It was as if the team members decided that they had only each other for support and they just couldn't depend on anyone outside the team for support. That, I think had a unifying effect on the team(if there was a lack of unity in the first place, that was my guess as I told you and I still believe that). It's a sad thought but we should probably thank the effigy burners and the house painters and the stone throwers for that......

 

[Bazza]

For the first time in a long time warrior, I agree entirely with what you just said!

What you don't think we could have chased 150 against Pakistan? I do.

I do agree however that D/N games are a waste of space in the most part. I didn't realise in advance that this was a D/N game, and if it was would have wasted my breath on all the arguments about who would win and why by simply pointing out that the toss would decide, as seems to be the case 90% of the time. I hope there are no D/N games in the Super 6, semis and final.

 

[Bazza]

And Eddie, I think India has proved to be a clearly better side than England in the ODI format over the past year.

I would still disagree with that on the basis that it was what 7-4 or something coming into this game.

 

[Anil]

I would still disagree with that on the basis that it was what 7-4 or something coming into this game.

..and what does 7-4 prove? That they are equal, it's too close to call, England were unlucky or maybe plainly that England is better....? Come on....5-4 might have suggested that, but 7-4 while it doesn't show complete domination or something, shows that one team clearly had the better of the exchanges and that, I think is a true picture if you consider the recent one day battles between these two teams.

 

[luckyeddie]

And Eddie, I think India has proved to be a clearly better side than England in the ODI format over the past year.
No matter what Caddick says, we've beaten England quite convincingly quite a few times, while other matches have been close some going this way and some the other.
We did have a worry going into this match due to the form of a few batsmen, but they pulled together.


Anil any evidence yet on the teamspirit ?

Can't argue with the truth. As an English supporter, I will whole-heartedly agree that India have out-performed England in the last year.

 

[full_length]

Bazza, to add to my comment that either India's beaten England convincingly or the matches have been pretty close this way or that (something I said probably 'cos of Caddick's and even Hussain's comments on the teams being neck on neck before the match. Also, Caddick specifically said India hadn't beaten England convincingly.):

In India
19-01-2002 India beat England by 22 runs Calcutta
22-01-2002 England beat India by 16 runs Cuttack
25-01-2002 India beat England by 4 wickets Madras
28-01-2002 India beat England by 8 wickets Kanpur
31-01-2002 England beat India by 2 runs New Delhi
03-02-2002 England beat India by 5 runs Bombay (WS)

In England
29-06-2002 India beat England by 6 wickets Lord's
04-07-2002 England vs India No result Chester-le-Street (India ored 285/4. England were 53/1 in 12.3 overs)
09-07-2002 England beat India by 64 runs The Oval (in a 32 over match)
13-07-2002 India beat England by 2 wickets Lord's

In Sri Lanka
22-09-2002 India beat England by 8 wickets Colombo (RPS)

In South Africa
26-02-2003 India beat England by 82 runs Durban (K)

___________________________________________________________________

Anil, I dont think you can attribute the teamspirit you saw to the effigy burning at all!
The team has played well together for around two years now. Some of the reaction back home would have done little more than dissapoint/disgust them. It probably also had them pull together that much more, but the evidence has really been there all along, and it showed through several times right from Nairobi to yesterday.

 

[Anil]

Anil, I dont think you can attribute the teamspirit you saw to the effigy burning at all!
The team has played well together for around two years now. Some of the reaction back home would have done little more than dissapoint/disgust them. It probably also had them pull together that much more, but the evidence has really been there all along, and it showed through several times right from Nairobi to yesterday.

Buddy, shall we agree to disagree on this subject? Because this argument can go on endlessly without really proving anything as neither of us can prove the mindset of the players before the Aus match and after the effigy burning crap. Let's just be happy that the team is playing as a single unit once more and displaying some of that resilience which they showed for the most part of last year, ok?

 

[full_length]

ok.

 

[Anil]

Hopefully the India-Pak match will be a cracker and the team that handles the pressure better should come through.

 

[marc71178]

What you don't think we could have chased 150 against Pakistan? I do.

In those conditions against Wasim in a great last burst of form, plaus Waqar, Shoaib et al?

Not a hope!

 

[Gotchya]

Hopefully the India-Pak match will be a cracker and the team that handles the pressure better should come through.

Can't wait for it . Planning on a bunk from the Uni, hell they might even close it off !