Career Help

[Ikki]

Hey guys, just wanted to share a problem I've been having hoping some of you bright, level-headed people can show me some direction.

I've been studying Law for the last 2-3 years and while I find it a partly interesting subject, I am beginning to think I am wasting my time since I am merely a mid-credit (63-65) student and with a lot of the personal stuff I've had going on during my study time it's starting to wear me out. I am thinking of doing it part-time but a part of me doesn't want to be 27 and going into the job market - which as best as I can tell is terrible for Law grads. I am not sure I want to be a Lawyer and not sure what exactly I can use my degree for upon graduation - in Law or outside of it in other fields. I hear jobs that make good money or have any kind of prestige require at least a distinction average - although there are cases I've read of people getting hired for various other reasons.

What do guys think? Should I persist? I think I'll get through it better if I do it part-time even if it means about a year added on. Anybody doing or have done Law? When should I be going for work-experience and what kinds of places are attractive for potential employers?

Blah, really depressed over it, really. I can't shake the feeling that I already should be settled by now. I've taken the long way around - some my own doing, some out of my hands.

 

[Sir Alex]

Hey guys, just wanted to share a problem I've been having hoping some of you bright, level-headed people can show me some direction.

I've been studying Law for the last 2-3 years and while I find it a partly interesting subject, I am beginning to think I am wasting my time since I am merely a mid-credit (63-65) student and with a lot of the personal stuff I've had going on during my study time it's starting to wear me out. I am thinking of doing it part-time but a part of me doesn't want to be 27 and going into the job market - which as best as I can tell is terrible for Law grads. I am not sure I want to be a Lawyer and not sure what exactly I can use my degree for upon graduation - in Law or outside of it in other fields. I hear jobs that make good money or have any kind of prestige require at least a distinction average - although there are cases I've read of people getting hired for various other reasons.

What do guys think? Should I persist? I think I'll get through it better if I do it part-time even if it means about a year added on. Anybody doing or have done Law? When should I be going for work-experience and what kinds of places are attractive for potential employers?

Blah, really depressed over it, really. I can't shake the feeling that I already should be settled by now. I've taken the long way around - some my own doing, some out of my hands.

I have read the story of a man who was such a waster in his youth and graduated only at 30. He went onto become the Vicepresident of Ford Motor Company at just after 40. There are guys who started off early only to go into a tailspin after sometime. So do not be harsh on yourself. There are very very very few people who have maintained consistent ups in their life. Eventually the purpose is to be happy with oneself, and not fall prey to outside pressures and **** up your life. If you are in a position to support yourself, then pursue what you want to do. Here I think personally that you should complete your law specialisation. But if you can't get your mind on it, then leave it, rather than pressurising yourself.

 

[fredfertang]

Hey guys, just wanted to share a problem I've been having hoping some of you bright, level-headed people can show me some direction.

I've been studying Law for the last 2-3 years and while I find it a partly interesting subject, I am beginning to think I am wasting my time since I am merely a mid-credit (63-65) student and with a lot of the personal stuff I've had going on during my study time it's starting to wear me out. I am thinking of doing it part-time but a part of me doesn't want to be 27 and going into the job market - which as best as I can tell is terrible for Law grads. I am not sure I want to be a Lawyer and not sure what exactly I can use my degree for upon graduation - in Law or outside of it in other fields. I hear jobs that make good money or have any kind of prestige require at least a distinction average - although there are cases I've read of people getting hired for various other reasons.

What do guys think? Should I persist? I think I'll get through it better if I do it part-time even if it means about a year added on. Anybody doing or have done Law? When should I be going for work-experience and what kinds of places are attractive for potential employers?

Blah, really depressed over it, really. I can't shake the feeling that I already should be settled by now. I've taken the long way around - some my own doing, some out of my hands.

I don't think after two or three years you should stop doing what you're doing unless you've got an alternative plan - that said I don't think you can do what I did any more which is get a law degree and just drift into the legal profession and make a career of it so if you're not convinced now you want the law as a career then you should probably do the soul searching now rather than later

........... but do bear in mind I'm a cynic who's due his mid-life crisis about now

 

[silentstriker]

Never too late mate. I realized when I was halfway through my degree that computer science was not my passion. If you're going to change, it won't get easier later on - the time to do it is now.

The question I ask is, 50 years form now, will you look back and be happy and content that time had been spent being a lawyer every one of those days? If the answer is yes, do it. If not, find something else.

It may seem overtly optimistic, but in the end, that's all it comes down to. I love waking up every morning and being excited for that day's work. Mondays are fantastic, and not something to dread. It may be hard to find, but once you do, it's so beautiful.

 

[sledger]

Law should send you in plenty of directions, over here Insurance firms, accountancy firms, financial service providers, the police, the prison service all look for people with law degrees. Failing that, it's not exactly a bad qualification to have. A law degree (over here anyway) is one of the most prestigious qualifications you can get from a normal university, and employers generally like people who have taken one as it demonstrates you have a decent, logical brain. I'd stick with it, but then I like the subject very much. However, like you, I am not sure if I would like a career in it.

 

[Burgey]

Law can take you to many places.

Hot places. Cold places...

 

[silentstriker]

Suicidal places...

 

[Top_Cat]

Never too late mate. I realized when I was halfway through my degree that computer science was not my passion. If you're going to change, it won't get easier later on - the time to do it is now.

The question I ask is, 50 years form now, will you look back and be happy and content that time had been spent being a lawyer every one of those days? If the answer is yes, do it. If not, find something else.

It may seem overtly optimistic, but in the end, that's all it comes down to. I love waking up every morning and being excited for that day's work. Mondays are fantastic, and not something to dread. It may be hard to find, but once you do, it's so beautiful.

He's right though, it's different with law. Certain professions demand you fit a certain look/feel, especially when there's a bad (for the prospective careerist) decent job to applicant ratio.

That said, aviation used to be the same. Used to be if you weren't flying in an airline by 30 you wouldn't get there but apparently companies have woken up to the fact that, with an aging population, it's not a good thing to lose over half your workforce to retirement in a short space of time. So companies are hiring people of varying ages/backgrounds instead of young hotshots.

Which essentially means you're right too (), best to stick to what you're good at and see where it takes you because, really, it's damn near impossible to predict where things may be and if an opportunity does pop up, you want to be ready rather than ruing that you weren't.

 

[JBH001]

Ikki, as someone who has made number of wrong choices and mistakes and has to live with them, I would advise you to finish your qualification, part time or otherwise. The quality of your grades are probably of more interest to prospective legal firms, but if you are thinking of not going down that path, then it wont matter so much. The primary function of a first university qualification is as a entry qualification to the job market. But from this perspective, completion of your qualification is important. And since you have already put so much time into it and are close to qualifying, it makes sense to finish, otherwise the opportunity cost of getting a University qualification would also have been wasted.

I'd suggest getting your law qualification, part time or full time, and then finding a job and working. It doesn't have to be a fantastic job or anything like that, but an employment area you might reasonably be interested in. After working for a few years, you can re-assess and better figure out where you want to go and what you want to do career wise. Too much is made, imo, of having 'fulfilling' work when for the majority of people this is simply not the case, and is unheard of in historical terms. Also, don't put yourself on some silly and arbitrary timeline with respect to your career/employment. If you compare yourself to others you are only going to end up vain and/or bitter as there are always going to be people better and worse off than you. If you must feel that you are in a race and you want to end up in the top finishers, remember that the race is a long one, and you have 35 - 45 years of working life ahead of you.

 

[Top_Cat]

JBH knows the score.

 

[Nate]

Law can take you to many places.

Hot places. Cold places...

Best person.

 

[fredfertang]

Law can take you to many places.

Hot places. Cold places...

.................. and places where you are up to your neck or beyond in **** - sometimes your own, sometimes someone elses

 

[Sanz]

What JBH has said.

 

[pasag]

a) Do not listen to anything I have to say, ever.

b) Pragmatism FTW. It's all good to say stick to what you really love but sometimes it's not possible. I'd love to bat in the middle order for Australia but I have to give up that dream (even though I'd probably do a better job than Marcus North...). I think after speaking to people if you think your grades wont be good enough in a hyper-competitive market then perhaps you should be looking at other options like transferring to another course you'd also enjoy that would give your academic record a fresh start and perhaps the job market is a bit less competitive as well.

Anyways, if you've still got a couple of years left, you can rectify things - become a book worm, do as many internships as possible and turn your attractiveness around. It's never hopeless.

Either way don't be depressed, you're clearly a smart guy and there are always many opportunities for people with intelligence.

 

[Burgey]

Very often law students get the idea that if they're not getting Ds or HDs and therefore won't be picked up by a megafirm, that they're somehow not cut out for the gig.

That's bull**** frankly. True it is that the Allens, Freehills, Allen and Overys etc are only likely to look at someone who has a distinction average, but here's the thing. Once they get a gig there, they're sat in a windowless cubby hole up to their armpits in discovery documents for a year or two before they even get a look at actual court work or get to meet a client.

If that's what you want to do, then fine. I'm on a committee at the Law Society and was speaking with a colleague who's at a major firm, one of the big four here. She was telling me that their grads are expected to work either 6 days per week, or alternatively they work 16 hour days plus, 5 days per week. 90 per cent burn out in 2 years or less, or alternatively are cast aside by the firm themselves.

Now, these firms take in however many grads per year, and they all want to make partner, but of course hardly any of them ever do, that's just the way of things. People think, for whatever reason, that the way to making big bucks in the law is to get into a mega firm.

Well, yes and no. I did the big firm thing when I left Uni, then was at the Bar for 10 years, then ran an office for a mid-sized firm at Parramatta, now I'm in a small firm in the CBD. There's three of us here.

Best place I've ever worked this is. And I can safely say the partners here have a better quality of life and earn just as much as most any going around. Largely that's because they have perspective about what's important and what isn't to them.

So look, if you think the law is all about going to some joint where you're in a back office helping put together some deal between BHP and Rio Tinto and that floats your boat, then fair cop. Personally, brain cancer appeals more to me than that. But the same degree will let you work in a heap of joints, and truth be told, once you've been in the work force for a year or two and got some experience, there rapidly comes a time when people don't give a **** about your academic transcript, because at the end of the day, if you're a lawyer your job is to solve problems and if you're good at doing that, then you'll be fine.

That and making problems for the other side, I should say.

There are a lot of legal egg-heads out there, people who think posting quotes from judges is funny, who read law reports in bed at night when normal people are asleep, or otherwise engaged. And if that works for them, is their passion, then that's fine. They're incredibly dull frankly, but it's fine. Personally, I work to live, not live to work, and that will always be the case. The law is a means to the end of having a happy life for me, not an end in itself. Now if I could just find that happy life..

There are a heap of different areas of law to get into Ikki. If I was you I'd at least get the degree unless you're completely over it, then frankly see where it takes you.

All the best with it anyway.

 

[benchmark00]

Do law for the chixxx.

 

[Burgey]

Do law for the chixxx.

A relevant factor, tbf.

When I was at Uni there were identical twins doing Commerce-Law there - both models. I took so many subjects I hated to get in the same classes as them...

 

[social]

Finish the degree full-time

When you go to part-time, it's faaaaaaaar too tempting to fob stuff off because your priorities change

If you're interested in business then take a couple of electives in accounting as they'll be invaluable

As Burgey said, dont sweat the grades unless you want to join one of the big firms

 

[Goughy]

IMO, finish the degree. If nothing else, it gives you a qualification and gives you a few more years to figure out what you want to do. Worst thing would be to rush into something unless you are suicidal or seriously depressed with your situation.

3 of my co-workers and close friends did law degrees and practiced and then moved on to the career they are in now. Even if you dont like it, it is a great base to move on to something else. Also there are so many different areas to go into. Of the 3 friends I am talking about one was a small town laywer, one was a prosecutor and the other took the Oil company schilling. I dont have a law degree, so I am no expert, but I think the skills it develops are useful both in and out of the career.

Currently you are on the law student path and it is fine and sometimes advisable to change direction but Id advise to wait until after graduation.

In all honesty, and this is talking for myself rather than anyone else, I would feel compelled to complete the degree as I would be disappointed in myself if I didnt.

Good luck with your decision. Id suggest not being hasty or doing anything you may regret or making a decison based on worry, panic or stress.

 

[Ikki]

Sir Alex, thanks, I think you've kind of got a part of my concern. I am overly negative and harsh on myself. Unfortunately, I can't shake the feeling that I should have finished a degree by now and started a job, etc. I just hope it doesn't have a real-life effect in that it hinders me in getting a job.

Manan, thanks for the advice but I think it's less of a case of me having another calling. I actually don't know what I'd do if I wasn't doing Law. If I had a good idea of what it was I would probably be doing it. A big part of me does want to be a lawyer, as I love helping people in that kind of way. I think most of my problem is with security. But I envy your outlook.

sledger, thanks for the tips. I think what bothers me most is looking at a lot of my other class mates. The ones that were incredibly bright and active are in big firm jobs and the others are unemployed. That scares me to ****s. Maybe I should move to England or something.

JBH, thanks for your advice. I think you're right; that I have to take myself off this "silly arbitrary timeline". I think if I did it part-time I'd be much more comfortable with the work-load and achieve better marks. I got a lot of family stuff that tends to keep me busy, time-wise and emotionally. Maybe when I am in a better place I'll start full-time again.

Burgey, thanks for your insightful post. Really, mate, I don't want to be in a big law firm working like a rat either. I don't want to be a billionaire or anything like that either. A comfortable life, a nice job and I'm set. I guess I am just not particularly sure what else I can do other than work in some kind of firm. I'm worried about my options post graduation as I am not sure what exactly they are I guess.

I guess I'll try to get some work experience, etc, and build my CV in that way. Maybe do part-time and study a bit harder. Ah, we'll see. Appreciate the advice guys.