Imran v Hadlee v Miller

[trundler]

Was about to say this. Nearly everyone who saw that era rates Lindwall the better bowler. Ray sharing more workload has to be one of the solid reasons behind it.

Only 11 more balls per innings. Before Trueman took off, Lindwall was the GOAT. Holding and Waqar weren't the best bowlers in their team either. And they weren't #5s either. Bad argument.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Only 11 more balls per innings. Before Trueman took off, Lindwall was the GOAT. Holding and Waqar weren't the best bowlers in their team either. And they weren't #5s either. Bad argument.

very bad argument. hurricane is usually a lot better than this.

 

[trundler]

very bad argument. hurricane is usually a lot better than this.

Ftr I distance myself from all TJB opinions other than Miller was a good bowler.

Imo, Miller vs Botham makes way more sense. Imran and Hadlee were completely different packages.

 

[TheJediBrah]

I really can't get over people genuinely thinking that bowling literally an extra 4-5 overs a game would have made Keith Miller so tired that his average would have gone up significantly. Have you seen footage of the bloke? He looked like an iron-man fused with a bodybuilder.

 

[h_hurricane]

Only 11 more balls per innings. Before Trueman took off, Lindwall was the GOAT. Holding and Waqar weren't the best bowlers in their team either. And they weren't #5s either. Bad argument.

I looked at their bpm not balls per innings. It is 224 for Lindwall, 190 for Miller. Clearly a solid difference.

 

[TheJediBrah]

I looked at their bpm not balls per innings. It is 224 for Lindwall, 190 for Miller. Clearly a solid difference.

not sure if srs

 

[h_hurricane]

I really can't get over people genuinely thinking that bowling literally an extra 4-5 overs a game would have made Keith Miller so tired that his average would have gone up significantly. Have you seen footage of the bloke? He looked like an iron-man fused with a bodybuilder.

Nobody said this by the way May be run or two as I said earlier.

Miller is a borderline ATG bowler for me. Certainly not in the Imran class.

 

[trundler]

I looked at their bpm not balls per innings. It is 224 for Lindwall, 190 for Miller. Clearly a solid difference.

I don't think that's fair because every all rounder plays as a batsman every now and then when they're injured. If he'd been a bowler he'd have just sit those out. 6 overs is more significant but it's still nothing like Kallis or something.

 

[Starfighter]

I think Imran has Miller beat in that department too.

Imran in his heyday

"He wore the Sussex cap and from its band flowed the signature mane that rested upon the nape of his neck. The martlets on his sleeveless jumper appeared as if newly embroidered and occasionally, when the morning sun broke, shone like little blue sapphires on his chest. Imran Khan was some sight. Outrageously handsome, athletically built and light on his feet, he carried himself like an emperor."


https://www.thecricketmonthly.com/story/1224397/when-imran-khan-blew-me-away

Nah, leathery-faced, tousle-haired Imran couldn't compete with Miller's movie star looks.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Nobody said this by the way May be run or two as I said earlier.

Miller is a borderline ATG bowler for me. Certainly not in the Imran class.

I'd consider a run or 2 signifcant.

If you choose to hold Miller's slightly lower workload against him when rating him as an ATG bowler then that's your right, even if it makes very little sense. It's hardly the worst opinion of the sort to ever be expressed here. There's a guy that thinks Ben Hilfenhaus is as good as Jimmy Anderson.

 

[harsh.ag]

Always difficult comparing between eras but, probably would rate Miller higher tbh.

Miller is a genuine ATG bowler, Gillespie is not quite.

Of all the things you've written on Miller here, this is the only one I think is plain wrong.

 

[trundler]

Nobody said this by the way May be run or two as I said earlier.

Miller is a borderline ATG bowler for me. Certainly not in the Imran class.

True. Imran was one of the best ever pace bowlers. Miller was a level or 2 below. But despite playing as a specialist batsman for 4 years Imran still scored 43 runs per match to Miller's 54. Does that bridge the WPM gap? Subjective as both are ATG all rounders but for the life of me I cannot understand the insinuation that Miller wasn't good enough in either discipline.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Of all the things you've written on Miller here, this is the only one I think is plain wrong.

You're more than welcome to think whatever you want

 

[TheJediBrah]

Worst opinion in this thread was the suggestion that Imran was as sexy as Miller. Imran was a handsome bloke in his younger years but Miller is several classes above.

 

[harsh.ag]

You're more than welcome to think whatever you want

Well that's always nice to know

 

[h_hurricane]

True. Imran was one of the best ever pace bowlers. Miller was a level or 2 below. But despite playing as a specialist batsman for 4 years Imran still scored 43 runs per match to Miller's 54. Does that bridge the WPM gap? Subjective as both are ATG all rounders but for the life of me I cannot understand the insinuation that Miller wasn't good enough in either discipline.

Miller certainly was good enough in both disciplines even though he wasn't elite in either. A better batsman than Imran but a worse bowler(nothing novel about this opinion). When it comes to comparisons like that I would go with the player with better primary skill. As allrounders, they are certainly in the same class, though are different with respect to what they bring to the table.

 

[trundler]

Who else is proud of TJB for discovering pre-90s cricketers

 

[TheJediBrah]

fancy telling the guy averaging 22 with the ball in Test cricket that he isn't an elite bowler

Who else is proud of TJB for discovering pre-90s cricketers

actually my first every cricket book was about the 1948 invincibles, heard more about them than any of the modern cricketers for a while

 

[kyear2]

I find that a very strange claim. Miller opened the bowling, averaged 10 runs per wicket less than Kallis not just in Tests but also across his much longer first class career, and took double the number of 5-fors. He didn't quite have a full time fast bowler's workload but he got results to an extent that Kallis certainly didn't.

Miller only bowled short spells with the new ball where he would go all out for 3 or 4 overs. And this was when the new ball was available much more frequently.

Kallis came in often with an older ball later into the innings either to rest the strike bowlers or take up overs before the new ball. Often also when the batsmen were set and asked to get a break through or keep things quiet, and still he was an effective bowler.

Their roles were not the same but were both effective at them.

 

[TNT]

Miller only bowled short spells with the new ball where he would go all out for 3 or 4 overs. And this was when the new ball was available much more frequently.

Kallis came in often with an older ball later into the innings either to rest the strike bowlers or take up overs before the new ball. Often also when the batsmen were set and asked to get a break through or keep things quiet, and still he was an effective bowler.

Their roles were not the same but were both effective at them.

So Miller was a strike bowler and Kallis was a fill in bowler.