MS Dhoni as a test wicketkeeper

[Salamuddin]

I know there are a number of people on this forum that rate Dhoni poorly as a test player.

Questions I have are this:
1) Is his "poorness" exaggerated somewhat - I think his wicketkeeping looks competent enough and the guy does average ~ 35 . I do believe he possesses the highest test batting avg of any Indian wicketkeeper.
He may not be Adam Gilchrist but I would have thought he's been one of the best wicketkeeping options India have had since Mongia was ushered out of the team.
2) And seriously do India have a realistic alternative that is genuinely better with both bat and gloves ?

 

[chaminda_00]

Karthik maybe, he is better with gloves baring his last Test and has played matches as a specialist opener/batsmen. Overall Dhoni is better, but there not many sides Karthik wouldn't make.

 

[duffer]

Karthik has been horrendous with the gloves recently, so much so that he was dropped in favour of Parthiv for the last match in Lanka. Dhoni is miles miles above him as a keeper and as a batsman.

By far and away the best keeper in the country, his work during the Australia series has been excellent so far.

 

[Manee]

Dhoni is a superb wicket keeper imo. His batting is improving too and this Test showed how he can rise up occasionally and help win a game with his batting.

 

[masterblaster]

Karthik has been horrendous with the gloves recently, so much so that he was dropped in favour of Parthiv for the last match in Lanka. Dhoni is miles miles above him as a keeper and as a batsman.

By far and away the best keeper in the country, his work during the Australia series has been excellent so far.

Agreed entirely. The improvement Dhoni has shown with the gloves has been nothing short of amazing. He's improved leaps and bounds and is definitely the best wicket keeper in India. Karthik on the other hand has deteriorated massively.

Nobody can take Dhoni's slot as wicket keeper at the moment. In the future if captaincy and exhaustion are wearing him down then I can see one of Karthik or Parthiv Patel coming into the side, but at the moment Dhoni's the best wicket keeping option.

 

[Salamuddin]

Simply put, there are only two realistic other options:

Parthiv and Dinesh Karthik.

Parthiv's keeping is still not good enough for test match cricket.

Karthik is probably the best natural gloveman of the lot, despite a couple of bad tests in Sri Lanka

Batting wise, IMO there's not a lot to choose between.....I don't think any one of them stands out as being significantly better than the other.

The fact that Dhoni's keeping has improved and the fact that he offers real leadership skills in a team otherwise devoid of said skills make him the best choice of the three in my book.

 

[chaminda_00]

I still think Karthik keeping was better prior to spending about two season playing as specialist batsmen. If you have no time behind the stumps as keeper your always going to take time to get your keeping back to standard. It just a like bowler spending a season as 12th man and not playing any domestic matches. You become a net bowler and lack the match zip. A keeper no match time, comes into games with hard hands and slow footwork. That was Karthik problem, but give him a season of domestic cricket he will be better then Dhoni IMO again.

 

[Prince EWS]

I still think Karthik keeping was better prior to spending about two season playing as specialist batsmen.

Yeah, AWTA. Whether it has actually returned to its former glory (or ever will, for that matter) or not is something I have any idea about though. I really rate Karthik highly as a wicket-keeper batsman so I hope he gets back on his feet.

I think he has more potential as a Test cricketer than Dhoni, although it's obvious Dhoni fully deserves his place at the moment.

 

[Jono]

Karthik's keeping at the stumps has never been as good as Dhoni's is atm (and as he has been over the last 12-18 mths.) However you can argue at his peak, Karthik was probably better keeping to the fast bowlers than Dhoni.

In the end, Karthik choked when the stage was his to put pressure on Dhoni.

 

[Richard]

Dhoni's most recent Test must've been his first particularly good one since the obscenely flat pitches against Pakistan this time last year?

 

[Polo23]

I'd say Dhoni is solid with the gloves, without being brilliant. There are other international keepers who are better gloveman, but perhaps not as good batsmen. I think Dhoni is good enough with both bat and gloves to have a long career for India..

 

[silentstriker]

I don't think Dhoni is brilliant with the gloves, but I think he is definitely better than solid, especially keeping to the spinners. I'd rate him as a very good gloveman.

I am not convinced about his batting in non-flat conditions though. And he has brain farts while batting too often.

 

[Uppercut]

Dhoni's most recent Test must've been his first particularly good one since the obscenely flat pitches against Pakistan this time last year?

But he missed Sri Lanka and wasn't needed much against SA. Since the tour of Australia he's played a grand total of 7 innings. And averaged 47 over them. Really all you're saying is "but Dhoni had a bad series away to Australia a year ago".

 

[duffer]

@SS Karthik is a more limited bat for mine and has a very suspect temperament. I can still remember him playing a series of extravagant shots and then getting out to a reverse sweep against Murali in a situation where we were desperate for something resembling a partnership.

Also how he handled the pressure of putting himself forward to challenge Dhoni was very worrying. Very much a project player who needs a lot of rework just to get back to his old self and then a lot more work to get anywhere near Dhoni.

 

[Richard]

But he missed Sri Lanka and wasn't needed much against SA. Since the tour of Australia he's played a grand total of 7 innings. And averaged 47 over them. Really all you're saying is "but Dhoni had a bad series away to Australia a year ago".

Well I'm saying he had a bad series in Australia and at home to SA, even if there are many people who've had worse series'.

Dhoni was also pretty moderate in England (apart from a 76* where he was caught behind on 46) and on several occasions before. Almost all his moments of any note at all in Test cricket before now have come against Pakistan or Sri Lanka on very flat wickets at home.

 

[social]

Dhoni will never be a great keeper

He will never be able to hold a place as a batsman or be good enough to bat succesfully at 6

However, as a package, he is a good player

So he's not Gilchrist (that was just media hype anyway), he's good enough to play 100 tests for India and those who think that there is even the remotest possibility of him being replaced have rocks in their head

 

[Uppercut]

Well I'm saying he had a bad series in Australia and at home to SA, even if there are many people who've had worse series'.

Dhoni was also pretty moderate in England (apart from a 76* where he was caught behind on 46) and on several occasions before. Almost all his moments of any note at all in Test cricket before now have come against Pakistan or Sri Lanka on very flat wickets at home.

Tough on him at home to SA. He played four innings. The first was after Sehwag had scored 300 already and realistically he wasn't needed, other than to score a few quick ones. The next two, on the green seamer, he failed along with everyone else first time round and second time round hit a spirited 50~, a score second only to Ganguly. The fourth time, on an absolute minefield, he biffed together 32 runs- more than useful on a pitch like that- before, admittedly throwing it away with a horrid shot. His captaincy in that test, however, was both inspired and inspiring, badly showing up Kumble's in the previous two.

I wouldn't criticise his overall performance in that series in the slightest, if only because he didn't bat enough to learn anything from it.

 

[Richard]

Dhoni will never be a great keeper

He will never be able to hold a place as a batsman or be good enough to bat succesfully at 6

However, as a package, he is a good player

So he's not Gilchrist (that was just media hype anyway), he's good enough to play 100 tests for India and those who think that there is even the remotest possibility of him being replaced have rocks in their head

Dhoni has in his 3 years in ODI cricket been better than Gilchrist ever was in any 3-year period during his and if he continues to go something like he has so far in ODIs will be easily the best ODI wicketkeeper-batsman of them all. Gilchrist isn't close to what Dhoni appears on-track to be as a ODI player.

I don't ever remember Dhoni being talked-up as the next Test Gilchrist as most people with any sense realise we're not very likely to have another one of them any time soon, if ever.

 

[Precambrian]

Dhoni will never be a great keeper

He will never be able to hold a place as a batsman or be good enough to bat succesfully at 6

However, as a package, he is a good player

So he's not Gilchrist (that was just media hype anyway), he's good enough to play 100 tests for India and those who think that there is even the remotest possibility of him being replaced have rocks in their head

Disagree, Dhoni has shown the willingness to work on his batting and I think his test numbers are only going to go up. BTW an avg of 35 is not rock bottom for a guy who comes at No. 7

As for the glovework, tell me how many times he had a bad match in the last 2 years? He's doing a fantastic job against the like of Kumble behind the stumps.

Dhoni has in his 3 years in ODI cricket been better than Gilchrist ever was in any 3-year period during his and if he continues to go something like he has so far in ODIs will be easily the best ODI wicketkeeper-batsman of them all. Gilchrist isn't close to what Dhoni appears on-track to be as a ODI player.

I don't ever remember Dhoni being talked-up as the next Test Gilchrist as most people with any sense realise we're not very likely to have another one of them any time soon, if ever.

AWTA. Dhoni is easily by a mile the best ODI keeper batsman ever. And I think it's a matter of time before he pushes his test avg above 40, though he might never ever get to the Gichristian heights.

 

[Burgey]

WHen Dhoni came here last summer, I had it in mind that he was an average keeper but a pulverizing stroke maker. In fact, his keeping here was 1st rate - I don't believe anyone could keep better than he did on that tour. As good maybe, but not better. His batting, though, was disappointing on tour.

I think he's partly under-rated as a test batsman owing to his less-than-conventional stly, though he's very effective on his day, as demonstrated pretty well over the past 5 days . He's also tactically astute and seems to have the support of all his players.