Should marijuana be legalised?

[BeeGee]

This was raised in the New Zealand election thread, but since that thread is unlikely to get a lot of non-NZ traffic I thought this could do with it's own thread.

I live in Colorado which recently changed it's laws to make recreational marijuana use legal. Marijuana is regulated in a similar way to alcohol, if you are 21 or older, you can buy up to an ounce at a licensed store, as long as you have a Colorado ID. People from outside Colorado can buy a quarter ounce.

Since legalisation, state tax revenues have seen a significant increase (there is a 25% state tax on recreational marijuana) and tourism numbers have also increased.

At the same time there has been an increase in ER overdose patients, particularly young children who have eaten edible marijuana products.

Would you like marijuana to be legalised where you live?

 

[BoyBrumby]

Not a user myself (although was a student many years ago, so, y'know...) but struggle to see any (sane) reasons for not legalising it when fags and alcohol are above board.

 

[Adders]

I think it should be legalised, as Brumbeh says all the time cigarettes and alcohol are socially acceptable there is no reason that I can see why Pot should be classed any differently.

But having said that, I do hate the Pro pot smokers brigade that keep telling us that cannabis is a harmless vice, its not. Long term excessive use can be as equally debilitating to body and mind as smoking ciggies or abusing alcohol. I have smoked a bit of pot in my time but never really got into it in a big way as it just never agreed with me that well. When I first met my wife she was an every day pot smoker and her (large) circle of friends were all into it in a big way, of that bunch of pothead friends 3 ended up committing suicide........you'll have a hard time convincing me that pot was not a direct factor in these sad losses of life.

 

[Hooksey]

This type of debate usually brings out the two bob experts only too willing to demonstrate how little they know.

 

[Teja.]

Poll inadequate as I need to vote both 1 and 3.

 

[morgieb]

Yes. No reason to criminalise it when alcohol and tobacco are legal.

 

[Hooksey]

Poll inadequate as I need to vote both 1 and 3.

You just did.

Stay cool.

 

[Top_Cat]

Yeah, am similarly abstinent and in line with BoyBrumby's thoughts on this.

It's such a pointless part of policing and the research into its harms is unjustifiably (insanely) well-funded when compared to other substances. The one marijuana 'research' centre devoted to it in Australia (NCPIC) basically produces self-published glossies/factsheets but has a budget larger than all 3 alcohol research centres (NDARC, NCETA, NDRI) combined and who actually produce peer-reviewed research. This despite big surveys like the NDSHS saying the same thing every 4 years; when compared to marijuana, more people drink, more people drink to risky levels, more people get sick from alcohol-related illness (=consequent cost to the public purse) and more people die from alcohol-related harms*.

It's a really bizarre state of affairs when, in the face of all that government-funded research, the government continues to spend even more $ policing people who smoke. I mean, they'll claim that a lot of the harms of marijuana require more research and that's why it must remain banned but when the government-funded centre devoted to said research continues getting funded despite producing no serious research in their 6 years thus far, well, there is clearly another agenda at play. That Chris Pyne was heavily involved in the centre's commission says more than I need to.

At the policing end, notwithstanding ACC ops and longer-term ones, at the state level there are several large dope ops devoted to marijuana every year. These usually require all coppers on duty to go stomping into homes to fine every 3-plant personal use hippie they can find or have heard about. It's basically vice squad logic applied to dope. Huge use of police resources and the vast majority of coppers gripe every year about it. This is despite it generally resulting in shift $ + O/T penalties for said coppers, probably the only time you'll ever hear a serving member complain about having to do overtime.

* am not anti-alcohol, for the record.

 

[ohnoitsyou]

Yeah what TC said. If the police spend switched all the resources they currently use up on marijuana to meth, NZ would be so much better of. Of course if pot was legalised the government would probably reason for a decrease in the police budget...

 

[G.I.Joe]

At the same time there has been an increase in ER overdose patients, particularly young children who have eaten edible marijuana products.

I think that'll go down as people get over the novelty aspect and become more educated about moderation.

 

[KiWiNiNjA]

Or when parents learn to keep the special brownies out of the reach of children.

Nah, who am I kidding. Idiot parents will keep on being idiot parents.

 

[Shri]

Not a fan of policing victimless crimes. As long as alcohol, tobacco etc are legal I don't see why this shouldn't be legal as well.

Ganja use has religious/cultural undertones in India. Hope someone uses the religious angle and pushes for its legalization under the new government.

 

[Hurricane]

Didn't realise we were discussing this in here - here is my post from the NZ thread,

Nah, I don't agree with you, Hurricane.

Alcohol leads to drunken violence, drink driving, alcoholism etc etc
New Zealand's "drinking culture"

Marijuana leads to cottonmouth, munchies, sunshine, and lollipops.

Regarding the Dunne quote, you don't even need to visit a hospital to see what damage alcohol can do.

Taking drunk driving out of the equation which can result in deaths including innocent people on the other side of the road (I am excluding it because I have no comeback to it) - if you drink to excess for 4-5 years and then stop you will probably be ok minus the divorce and loss of friendships in your life, however your health will recover. If you smoke pot for 4-5 years there is probably and I making this up but if you challenge me I will google it - there is a 5-10% chance you will be mentally ****ed for life (in a psych ward).

Also the effects of pot are insidious. If you smoke up more than once a month you will lose your ambition. Now maybe ambition doesn't sound like an important thing, but to parents (I am not a parent) of some 21 year old who is living in their basement and content with his 3 day a week job at the corner store you are probably very concerned about it.

If you sense uptightness in my posts it is there for two reasons. I have known people who have lost all ambition and they were my friends. Secondly I get "offered it/thrust upon me" once every couple of months. I have no problem with people dabbling with it in their 20s to check it out and I certainly did. But I have issues with people doing it long term. I think it does harm other people and tax payers by creating costs for our health system and our economy. If there is ever a referendum on legalising it I will be voting against it. Also remember when reading my posts I am an old **** if I was in my 20s and still dabbling then I would be all in favour of it no doubt.

Edit - I also don't see the need to legalise it as it is a piece of cake to acquire some and use. And it is affordable. So future teenagers will not be deprived of the traditional pot experience.

 

[Hurricane]

Here's another post from that thread

Hurricane,

First, The 'study' you're citing states that one joint = 20 cigarettes, not 30. I might be appearing pedantic but 50% more is quite a lot.

Secondly, the study is a complete farce, as a) it has a sample size of 79 people b) the results was derived from purely anecdotal evidence not actual scientific data. Quoting from the study:



Such precise conclusions are meaningless from that lolsample size and interviews IMO.

Maybe 30 may just be scare mongering - I heard it from a teacher at school here is another study that suggests it is 2.5 to 5 times worse. Either way, 30 or 2.5, it is worse.

https://www.drugfree.org/join-together/drugs/study-says-smoking-marijuana

Smoking a single marijuana joint is equivalent to smoking 2.5 to 5 cigarettes in terms of damage to the lungs, largely due to differences in how pot and cigarette users smoke.

The Guardian reported July 31 that researchers at the Medical Research Institute of New Zealand found that the deep drags taken by marijuana users, along with their penchant for holding smoke in before exhaling, can cause problems like obstructed airways and hyperinflation of the lungs. The lack of filters on marijuana joints also contributes to lung problems, researchers said.

The study involved 339 adult volunteers divided into four groups: marijuana-only smokers, tobacco-only smokers, marijuana and tobacco smokers, and nonsmokers.

All of the smokers reported coughing and wheezing, but only tobacco smokers exhibited signs of emphysema.

 

[Howe_zat]

I'm inclined to throw it in the alcohol bracket but I worry about the effect of decriminalising the market for overseas criminal activities. If one country decides to legalise marijuana use, it will presumably still be illegal to import it as it's just the one country that's legalised the use. So you'd end up having laws that support the industry of organised crime that currently imports both marijuana and other illegal drugs.

 

[Teja.]

Hurricane,

but the reason for the lack of filters in marijuana joints is because of the fact that it it is illegal, therefore i) cannot be micro-regulated and ii) therefore predominantly made in the informal sector, a problem which would be dealt with largely if weed were to be legalized!

Further,

If you smoke up more than once a month you will lose your ambition.

seems like a massive exaggeration and generalization, I'm in law school with a very rigorous course and most infrequent users on whose life weed has zero impact on drive/career-wise still have a higher frequency than that. A damning indictment like that on using more than once a month is certainly not true. The only point where your statement starts becoming true is when people light up every day first thing in the morning alone and get through two joints an hour, eating fast food and watching hipster movies till they drag their fat ass back to bed again which is not true for the majority of users.

Shri,

Bhaang which is a much more potent form of cannibis which is directly eaten is legal and sold in government shops in Rajasthan at lower than Rs. 500/kg. (<$10) The hallucinations/paranoia from large doses get old more than a few times a year though.

 

[jan]

No.

 

[fredfertang]

Legalise it and sell it from licensed outlets - the government will save a fortune on policing and they'll be able to levy a duty on it so its the proverbial win/win

In fact do the same with Class A drugs and you'll put all the lowlife drug dealers and half of the criminal defence lawyers out of business too - another win/win

So why don't they do it?


 

[Hurricane]

seems like a massive exaggeration and generalization, I'm in law school with a very rigorous course and most infrequent users on whose life weed has zero impact on drive/career-wise still have a higher frequency than that. A damning indictment like that on using more than once a month is certainly not true. The only point where your statement starts becoming true is when people light up every day first thing in the morning alone and get through two joints an hour, eating fast food and watching hipster movies till they drag their fat ass back to bed again which is not true for the majority of users.

Long-term marijuana use appears to have an effect on dopamine levels in the brain’s striatum, which research has shown is linked to novelty-related decision making and motivation.

Study Shocker: Potheads May Not Be Motivated to Work

 

[Shri]

Shri,

Bhaang which is a much more potent form of cannibis which is directly eaten is legal and sold in government shops in Rajasthan at lower than Rs. 500/kg. (<$10) The hallucinations/paranoia from large doses get old more than a few times a year though.

Weed isn't a hallucinogen. Paranoia is possible if it's strong enough but I've never hallucinated before.