***Official*** Tour Games

[Scaly piscine]

Sounds like Panesar has been completely toothless in every game so far, as per usual when it's not a bunsen.

Has he gotten any wickets so far that weren't caught at the outer ring (as in midwicket) or in the deep?

 

[Nate]

Haha, no.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

Sounds like Panesar has been completely toothless in every game so far, as per usual when it's not a bunsen.

Has he gotten any wickets so far that weren't caught at the outer ring (as in midwicket) or in the deep?

Had Clarke caught at slip in the match against New South Wales, I believe. Though that could have been Giles...

Giles also has one wicket bowled I believe.

 

[steds]

Saj holding his hand up for the 8 spot with his batting; pity his bowling been on the poo side of ordinary tho.

You could even say it's been on the poo side of poo tbh

 

[greg]

Sounds like Panesar has been completely toothless in every game so far, as per usual when it's not a bunsen.

Has he gotten any wickets so far that weren't caught at the outer ring (as in midwicket) or in the deep?

Even not taking any wickets he's done a job which more than justifies his place in the team. Although if memory serves you've only ever watched him bowl on YouTube, so will be well placed to tell us about all the 'bunsens' he bowled on last Summer.

(He has one wicket caught at slip, one at midwicket, a couple of missed stumpings and chances at slip/bat-pad I believe.)

 

[Scaly piscine]

Panesar so far:

3-0-17-0
19-2-58-1
13-2-38-0
22-7-54-1 (caught, slog-sweep skied to mid-wicket)
12-4-34-1 (caught, clipped to mid-wicket)

Clarke was caught at slip presumably. Don't see what the fuss is with Panesar as I've said repeatedly he's just a finger spinner and relies on conditions that aren't going to be there most of the time and he's going to struggle to average below 35 over his career. Same goes for any finger spinner playing mainly outside of the Asia.

 

[howardj]

Border reckons Giles clearly outbowled him in Sydney.

Giles is dealt with incredibly harshly on this forum.

By contrast, there seems to be a cult following for, and perhaps a tendency to over-rate, Monty.

 

[Scaly piscine]

Even not taking any wickets he's done a job which more than justifies his place in the team. Although if memory serves you've only ever watched him bowl on YouTube, so will be well placed to tell us about all the 'bunsens' he bowled on last Summer.

(He has one wicket caught at slip, one at midwicket, a couple of missed stumpings and chances at slip/bat-pad I believe.)

I watched plenty of the highlights and watched some of it live at the cricket club.

He played on a complete bunsen against SL, most of the pitches against Pakistan had a little bit in them and Pakistan played him badly, particularly after Harmison rattled them.

 

[shortpitched713]

Border reckons Giles clearly outbowled him in Sydney.

Giles is dealt with incredibly harshly on this forum.

By contrast, there seems to be a cult following for, and perhaps a tendency to over-rate, Monty.

At the same time I think its pretty unfair to write Monty off after a couple of tour games. From what he's done in Test matches he's fully deserved the chance to play in the Ashes. If he bowls worse than Giles then, then I guess you guys have a point.

 

[shortpitched713]

Don't see what the fuss is with Panesar as I've said repeatedly he's just a finger spinner and relies on conditions that aren't going to be there most of the time and he's going to struggle to average below 35 over his career. Same goes for any finger spinner playing mainly outside of the Asia.

Don't worry, tour games don't count to bring your average into the mid thirties.

 

[greg]

The fundamental point is that this is not a case of "attacking Monty" vs "defensive and economical Giles". Even when he doesn't take wickets Monty is a far more economical bowler, and can do a more than adequate job in the first innings when the pitch isn't helping. If he can wheel away at one end all afternoon giving away nothing it allows the fast bowlers to steam in and attack from the other. This is more important now than ever with Flintoff's role as a containing bowler when England are under the cosh having been taken away by his injury - he will be used exclusively as a strike bowler bowling 4-6 over bursts.

And frankly, judging how he will do on the basis of the tour so far is ridiculous. Finger spinners need long spells to build up pressure and exploit plans - he's barely got going yet. If you want to know how Monty will do, the performances of last summer are what you should look at, not a few spells in the warm-up games outside of the intensity of the test arena.

 

[Scaly piscine]

At the same time I think its pretty unfair to write Monty off after a couple of tour games. From what he's done in Test matches he's fully deserved the chance to play in the Ashes. If he bowls worse than Giles then, then I guess you guys have a point.

I've not been comparing with Giles, but I'll do that now. If he doesn't bowl significantly better than Giles would have or if he doesn't bowl much then Giles is the better option because he's a much better batsman and fielder. As far as I'm concerned they'll both contribute very little anyway, less than Plunkett or Mahmood would contribute because they're more likely to get good batsmen out than Giles (as opposed to the batsmen getting themselves out) or more likely to add valuable runs and field better than Panesar.

 

[greg]

I've not been comparing with Giles, but I'll do that now. If he doesn't bowl significantly better than Giles would have or if he doesn't bowl much then Giles is the better option because he's a much better batsman and fielder. As far as I'm concerned they'll both contribute very little anyway, less than Plunkett or Mahmood would contribute because they're more likely to get good batsmen out than Giles (as opposed to the batsmen getting themselves out) or more likely to add valuable runs and field better than Panesar.

Lol, I must admit i hadn't foreseen the Durham angle coming into this argument. Where there's a will there's a way...

Strange that you pick Mahmood (or Plunkett) over Panesar because of the runs that they will score, but fail to mention the 20-30 extra runs they'll concede per 10 over spell. As for "not bowling much" - Panesar bowled over a quarter of the overs vs SA in a five man attack. How much do you expect him to bowl?

 

[TheEpic]

Lest we not forget that Panesar has had at least one stumping missed and 2 catches spilled.

 

[Scaly piscine]

Lest we not forget that Panesar has had at least one stumping missed and 2 catches spilled.

Because no other bowler has chances missed off them do they?

 

[Scaly piscine]

Lol, I must admit i hadn't foreseen the Durham angle coming into this argument. Where there's a will there's a way...

Strange that you pick Mahmood (or Plunkett) over Panesar because of the runs that they will score, but fail to mention the 20-30 extra runs they'll concede per 10 over spell. As for "not bowling much" - Panesar bowled over a quarter of the overs vs SA in a five man attack. How much do you expect him to bowl?

Look at their economy rates and you'll discover it's actually an extra 10 runs, which is compensated by the fact that they'll take wickets quicker.

 

[TheEpic]

Because no other bowler has chances missed off them do they?

Of course they do. However, you are making negative comments about Panesar and his place in the side, primarily on his figures in warm up matches thus far. I am saying that he should have had 3 more wickets if it hadn't been for the mistakes of others. If those easy chances had been taken, his figures would look more flattering than they do at the moment.

Also, if you are dismissing Panesar for his figures in these warm-up games, presumably you will also call for Flintoff to be dropped, due to these figures he has registered so far on the tour:

10-0-55-1
15-4-52-0
4-1-11-0
12-2-34-1
6-1-18-0

A grand total of 2 wickets. Of course, Flintoff shouldn't be dropped, as his place is invaluable in the side. Neither should Panesar. He is the man in possession, having performed well for England in the summer. Neither should he be judged on meaningless warm-up games, where he has even been quite unlucky with chances missed off his bowling.

It's clear you don't like Panesar, which is fair enough. But your arguments for why he shouldn't play at Brisbane are sooo weak.

 

[greg]

Look at their economy rates and you'll discover it's actually an extra 10 runs, which is compensated by the fact that they'll take wickets quicker.

20-30 if they were ever given a 10 over spell to test it out.

 

[Scaly piscine]

Of course they do. However, you are making negative comments about Panesar and his place in the side, primarily on his figures in warm up matches thus far. I am saying that he should have had 3 more wickets if it hadn't been for the mistakes of others. If those easy chances had been taken, his figures would look more flattering than they do at the moment.

Also, if you are dismissing Panesar for his figures in these warm-up games, presumably you will also call for Flintoff to be dropped, due to these figures he has registered so far on the tour:

10-0-55-1
15-4-52-0
4-1-11-0
12-2-34-1
6-1-18-0

A grand total of 2 wickets. Of course, Flintoff shouldn't be dropped, as his place is invaluable in the side. Neither should Panesar. He is the man in possession, having performed well for England in the summer. Neither should he be judged on meaningless warm-up games, where he has even been quite unlucky with chances missed off his bowling.

It's clear you don't like Panesar, which is fair enough. But your arguments for why he shouldn't play at Brisbane are sooo weak.

Flintoff is holding back, Panesar is different because he's a spinner. Also Panesar has barely managed to get his average into the low 30s on more spin friendly wickets than you'd expect to see, I can only see his average going up significantly during the Ashes and that means he's not worth his place in the side.

 

[Gloucefan]

Flintoff is holding back, Panesar is different because he's a spinner. Also Panesar has barely managed to get his average into the low 30s on more spin friendly wickets than you'd expect to see, I can only see his average going up significantly during the Ashes and that means he's not worth his place in the side.

I think most people here know your opinion of Panesar, you've stated it plenty of times. It's not like you ever say anything new, no offence but it just gets old when you pop up with the same stuff everytime he's mentioned.