The Greatest Person of the Twentieth Century

[Spark]

"Most underrated influence" is probably a more interesting question than "most influential" tbh.

 

[Bahnz]

I think he gets a slightly unfair rap for Galipolli tbh. The overall campaign was his idea and maybe not a great one but it's pretty clear that the admirals in charge fundamentally misunderstood what he was trying to achieve and how, and certainly misunderstood that a massive ground invasion was never, ever part of his original concept.

But all that is rendered completely moot by what happened in Bengal obvs. And I think I've commented before on some of his more ridiculous ideas in WW2 especially involving dicking around in Greece and Yugoslavia of all places and having to be dragged kicking and screaming to the idea of a cross-channel invasion.

I actually think that what happened in Bengal can be viewed very similarly to what happened in Galipolli. Both cases involved a fundemental failure of leadership on Churchill's part, but I think it would be probably unfair to blame Churchill as the primary cause. People saying that Churchill caused the Bengal famine ignore the fact that it was primarily the fault of a) the Japanese invasion of Burma which cut India off from its main source of rice imports; b) a collapsing colonial administration thast no longer had the capability to organise an effective coordinated relief effort (though tbf, Churchill was obviously a major proponent of colonialism); and c) the Nazis causing chaos in Europe making any attempt to provide aide a complicated game of military calculus (Churchill did ask the Americans to provide food aide to the Indians which they declined to do for the same military reasons). None of which is to excuse him: the war cabinet was too slow to recognise the scale of the disaster and was wrong to divert supplies to troops in the balkans.

 

[Teja.]

Haha I disagree fundamentally with the basic premise of this. "Participant in history" and "significant influence over people's lives" are in no sense contradictory, in fact I would suggest the opposite is true.

Yeah I basically agree with you in the way that you mean those things but I meant ‘participant in history’ in a bookish academic sense and ‘significant influence on our lives’ in a everyday practical sense.

 

[Gnske]

The most underrated influence and equally overrated, yet clearly was the man of the century is Hitler. No one is on the mark when it comes to who he truly was.

 

[Burgey]

Looking at how the Dardanelles campaign (Gallipoli) was Churchill's foolish idea it can't possibly be him no matter what he did in WW2.

I'd say Alexander Fleming.

Overrated.

 

[Niall]

Anyone say Warren G yet?

REGULATE.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Overrated.

How many millions of lives have been saved by penicillin? Some estimates are 200 mn+

 

[Burgey]

Yeah, but I’m allergic to it, so what’s he done for me lately?

Besides, the idea it was all his work is somewhat misguided tbh

 

[ankitj]

Vladimir Lenin.

Led the first successful Communist revolution. Look what happened throughout the century throughout the world after that. Most influential person in the century for mine.

 

[ankitj]

When we say greatest, do we mean people who had positive influence only and not like TIME's person of century thing where focus was on "influence". If it is about influence I would say Vladimir Lenin.

Greatness is difficult to assess. How do I compare Mahatma Gandhi with Martin Luther King Jr. for instance?

OK, I read the thread and I realize that it's silly to be throwing Lenin's name in the ring.

I nominate Rahul Dravid.

I have been through this it appears.

 

[weldone]

Vladimir Lenin.

Led the first successful Communist revolution. Look what happened throughout the century throughout the world after that. Most influential person in the century for mine.

Vladimir Lenin was the fake socialist of that time, he was just an opportunist - rode the socialist under-current in society, came to power through a coup, established state capitalism, called it 'communism' and made people believe the BS - how clever! - he was the Elizabeth Warren of that time - just 100 times more inhuman and ruthless and successful

 

[Burgey]

Nah. Was a top bloke.

 

[DriveClub]

The Balkans hate churchill so its not just Indians. Don't think anyone except English speaking countries hold him in such high esteem

 

[Burgey]

I suspect there were a few outfits who didn't much care for Alexander the Great, but that doesn't mean he wasn't influential or a great leader. Churchill probably deserves some credit for, you know, standing up to actual Nazis, when so many in England were happy with the Bosch seeing off the Reds and the Jews. he has his downsides, but which political leader doesn't? Kennedy had mob ties and started Vietnam, Gandhi liked to lay down with young girls, MLK was a philanderer etc etc. I'd actually put LBJ higher than a lot of other politicians from the 20th century, but he was mired in Vietnam and that tarnished his legacy, which otherwise was actually pretty good.

I get the idea of advances in medicine and science being recognized, but whether Fleming gets a nod for asking "What's this fungus?" as opposed to the teams of people who developed it into a drug which actually works, I'm not so sure about.

 

[DriveClub]

Influential yes in the same way Hitler or Stalin was. But great leaders throughout history are rated on military prowess and I don't consider that something to celebrate.

 

[Burgey]

Look, if you want someone who's universally loved, then you'll be looking forever.

 

[Daemon]

imagine likening mlk’s philandering to churchill’s column of misdeeds

nobody’s perfect but this is the greatest person ever we’re talking about

 

[Burgey]

You can well imagine likening the two when the whole point of the post literally is that none of these people is perfect. by the same token, imagine comparing Churchill with Stalin and Hitler.

 

[Burgey]

I should also in fairness say I'll henceforth refrain from labeling you "Gandhi Daemon"

 

[DriveClub]

My pov I don't consider any political leaders "Greatest Person", Greatest political leaders will always come from big empires. Bigger the empire bigger historical footprint.