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Feminism thread

OverratedSanity

Well-known member
Feminism needs a lot of focus, especially here in India where it runs at a very deep level. It's so ingrained into people's psyche that they just can't see what's wrong with some of the issues holding women back.

So completely unironically, I'm going to say that the 'male gaze' is a nonsense topic and just isn't worth talking about.
 

RossTaylorsBox

Well-known member
I kind of realized that that term is not universal. Has been used in Indian media. It's basically about objectifying / sexy-fying women in media or entertainment industry for pleasure of "male gaze".

EDIT: Elaborating further, this is somewhat tricky and I struggle to come to terms with this. On one hand, there is talk of complete sexual autonomy of women and their right to choose how they dress up and behave. On the other hand, there is condemnation of excessively sexualized portrayal like the one in the still below from an Indian movie:

Why is there a gun pointed at her head?
 

ankitj

Well-known member
Why is there a gun pointed at her head?
You might appreciate if you watch Bollywood for 5 years at least :p

That's just a gunman dancing with a girl performing for the pleasure of bad boys from a rural place. Bollywood can be hard to explain!
 

sledger

Spanish_Vicente
I kind of realized that that term is not universal. Has been used in Indian media. It's basically about objectifying / sexy-fying women in media or entertainment industry for pleasure of "male gaze".

EDIT: Elaborating further, this is somewhat tricky and I struggle to come to terms with this. On one hand, there is talk of complete sexual autonomy of women and their right to choose how they dress up and behave. On the other hand, there is condemnation of excessively sexualized portrayal like the one in the still below from an Indian movie:

Aren't both of these things axioms of freedom of thought/expression though?
 

ankitj

Well-known member
Aren't both of these things axioms of freedom of thought/expression though?
I see what you mean. At a personal level I find these portrayals unappealing. But then the actresses have chosen to perform those sequences. And they are not exploited damsels but they command a lot of power and autonomy in their decisions on which acts they want to perform.
 
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BoyBrumby

Englishman
Feminism is the theory, Lesbianism is the practice.

Actual proper quote from Ti-Grace Atkinson, the radical American feminist who I became acquainted with on the Gender Studies course I took as part of my Sociology degree.
 

sledger

Spanish_Vicente
I see what you mean. At a personal level I find these portrayals unappealing. But then the actresses have chosen to perform those sequences. And they are not exploited damsels but they command a lot of power and autonomy in their decisions on which acts they want to perform.
Yes, this is largely my stance. We must not forget when there will be situations in which women may be manipulated/forced/cajoled into such performances, and these situations are most definitely not "ok". But, as you allude to, in many such instances the woman in question will be acting as an independent and genuinely autonomous agent, and in such circumstances their choices should be respected. Like you, I find such displays unappealing, but to suggest my, or anyone else's, disdain for such things should somehow trump the prudential decision of the participant to take part in revealing photoshoots etc... on the basis that they don't know any better etc... is deeply patronising and dire.
 
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duffer

Well-known member
Feminism is the theory, Lesbianism is the practice.

Actual proper quote from Ti-Grace Atkinson, the radical American feminist who I became acquainted with on the Gender Studies course I took as part of my Sociology degree.
Heh.
 

sledger

Spanish_Vicente
The problem for mine, is that a lot of the discourse on the topic of equality tends to treat equality as a value in and off itself. I'm not convinced that this is an especially helpful way of framing issues associated with gender/racial/religious divides. A lot of the discussions of the inherent issues focus on equality as something to be promoted and actively pursued, almost as if it is a concept that can be reached out and touched. In my mind, actual equality is more in fact about the absence of direness and horribleness, rather than the presence of positiveness. I fear a lot of initiatives designed to actively positively promote equality, for instance, tend to emphasise the differences between people of different backgrounds etc... rather than play them down.

I remember as a child, of 4 or 5 years old, the entire school being marched into an assembly to be given presentations on diversity. The aim of this session was obviously not ignoble, but what I very clearly remember from that experience was being told you shouldn't treat someone differntly because of their skin colour. I simply couldn't understand why anyone would do that. I hadn't even entertained the possibility of such a thing. From that point onward I recall there was a considerable increase in incidents regarding the kids of ethnic minority backrounds (not that there were many) being bullied and so on.

This is obviously purely anecdotal, but it is perhaps reflective of why I'm sceptical of initiatives designed to enhance diversity that have existed to date.
 
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sledger

Spanish_Vicente
Please post shorter and better posts.

Thanks.
If all you can do is make snide remarks then it would probably benefit all concerned if you bestowed the fruits of your prodigious wit on someone with the spare time to give them the consideration they doubtless deserve.
 
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