The Australian politics thread

[Flem274*]

Isn't this a straight up function of being anywhere to the left of Ronald Reagan and obviously popular amongst urban liberals? Idk what you can do about that.

she winds conservatives up beyond the norm for a labour politician for a lot of unique reasons, but it's too much to list. basically, to the regions about to be thatchered by necessary environmental reform, they believe she is everything they hate, fear and suspect about young urban progressive women. 'she's a pretty communist'.

my hometown is going to go down in flames and i can't blame them for being angry, but we need to do some fixing and john key spent his politcal capital elsewhere.

i think the only way to sell it and make them like it is for a national party pm to do it and package it in nice muh economy language. that's how i'll do it if simon bridges flukes an election victory. if he can win i can too.

edit - a lot of the hate is backhanded respect too. years ago my old man marked her as a future labour star when she wasn't a threat. now that she won...

edit2 - taking over the thread so i'll leave it here.

 

[RossTaylorsBox]

What China is doing in Xinjiang is just textbook ethnic cleansing and slow-motion genocide, idk how you can say with a straight face "but what about black people in jail" whilst also completely ignoring the other aspects of China's legal and criminal law system, such as the vast number of executions compared to basically every other country in the world.

Like, we can criticise America's immigration detention system (and Australia's) without claiming that it is literally an attempt to erase Mexican ethnic identity, right?

I dunno, from what I've seen the reason a lot of people who are very concerned about China (including many Western politicians) is not because of human rights issues, even though they'll give it lip service, which is what I think Shademan was trying to get at originally. I don't think it's really whataboutery to bring up stuff like the CIA or black men in prison, it's still institutionalized oppression and tyranny even though China's method is way more brutal. Other fascism in China like labour conditions, the surveillance state or the legal system just doesn't get the same attention and it seems kind of hypocritical imo. That's not even going into more recent stuff like counting urns in photos as proof China are covering up millions of deaths from coronavirus or thinking that China sending doctors to Italy is them deviously exerting their "soft power".

 

[Spark]

I dunno, from what I've seen the reason a lot of people who are very concerned about China (including many Western politicians) is not because of human rights issues, even though they'll give it lip service, which is what I think Shademan was trying to get at originally. I don't think it's really whataboutery to bring up stuff like the CIA or black men in prison, it's still institutionalized oppression and tyranny even though China's method is way more brutal. Other fascism in China like labour conditions, the surveillance state or the legal system just doesn't get the same attention and it seems kind of hypocritical imo. That's not even going into more recent stuff like counting urns in photos as proof China are covering up millions of deaths from coronavirus or thinking that China sending doctors to Italy is them deviously exerting their "soft power".

It's not whataboutery to bring them up, but it is to say that they're the same, which is what you acknowledge yourself. That's the point. We need to be able to make distinctions or this is just both-sidesism writ large and we might as well be the NYT editorial board.

 

[RossTaylorsBox]

I've only implied they're the "same" in that they're both massively ****ed up violations of human rights, not the extent of the brutality. Like, I haven't said China's crimes are fine because America also does bad stuff.

 

[GotSpin]

I mean if you count American prisons as a concentration camp, they've been throwing black men in there for decades.

No they’re not...

 

[Spikey]

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/n...n/news-story/7b9517ceaee16b944fa54b1095eec084

Either way, with Molan pulling out after realising his chances of winning were remote at best, and Constance also withdrawing after learning he did not have the full support of his branches, many Liberals have been left fuming.

As for who to blame, one senior party official is pointing the finger squarely at Hawke.

“The Coalition could have secured two seats — Eden-Monaro and one other, possibly Gilmore — if we’d done a deal,” a senior party official said.

this should bring a smile to Burgey's face

 

[Line and Length]

One of my major concerns about so-called foreign investments is how successive Governments have lost control of one of our most precious resources - water.

Unibale, which is listed as an Australian subsidiary and is owned by the Chinese Communist Party, owns several thousand megalitres of water entitlements in Australian river systems. These river systems include the Murray-Darling where there has been considerable conflict over the past decade or so between the various parties that depend on a reliable water supply for their primary industry. Not only that, 60 percent of Aboriginal people living in NSW are located along the Murray-Darling and their way of life has been intricately linked to these threatened waterways for tens of thousands of years.

John Howard's National Water Commission Bill in 2004 was supposed to result in a nationally-compatible, market, regulatory and planning based system of managing surface and groundwater resources for rural and urban use that optimises economic, social and environmental outcomes.

It hasn't happened. Governments, both Federal and State, have lost control. Water 'harvesting' is uncontrolled and unmeasured with captured water being stored in privately-owned dams.

The Murray Darling Water Plan was established in 2012 but there has been a lack of co-operation between the Federal Government and the four States involved. Meanwhile private companies such as Unibale operate without any required controls in place.

It's a major concern.

 

[James90]

Because it was a nasty tweet to have a crack at a great great man. There are some sailors whose actions in Australasia deserve opprobrium. Cook is not one of them. The same thing happened here last year and ruined the 250 year celebrations if his arrival.

Are you literally getting offended on behalf of a bloke that lived and died hundreds of years ago?

 

[James90]

As I have said elsewhere, I joined CW to avoid political debates but sometimes they can't be avoided. Without wishing to go into the pros and cons of minor parties, what are members' thoughts on the ideals espoused by this recently formed party?

Stop Selling Australia Party·Saturday, February 23, 2019·

The primary aim of the “Stop Selling Australia Party” is two-fold. Firstly, to prevent Australian freehold real estate and primary lands being sold off to foreign buyers and entities. The party believes land holding should only be allowed to foreign buyers and entities by a lease hold agreement as opposed to free hold title. Lease agreements reverting back to the Commonwealth at the end of their term.

This means that all land purchased by non-Australian residents would simply transfer back to the people of Australia at the end of the lease agreement.

Maintaining majority Australian ownership of agricultural & rural farmland is imperative to the long term stability of future Australian generations. Sadly much of our rural lands have already been sold off meaning we no longer have control of where a large amount of produce or stock is sold. We aim to put a STOP to selling Australia. We are not racist and we do not discriminate, we simply believe selling off our country to foreign investors and countries is not in the best interest of our future generations.

Secondly, we believe the Australian Political System is broken.
We would like to implement a range of initiatives and policies designed to "Clean Up Australian politics".

These include:
*Banning all donations to political parties from foreign countries or citizens.
*Ensuring that all political donations over $200 are transparent and declared within two weeks of being received (not the current 12 months - currently donations under $13,000 do NOT need to be declared)
*The appointment of a Federal ICAC - Independent Commission Against Corruption.
*An urgent review of politicians' entitlements, and the appointment of an administrator to "approve" expenses charged to the tax-payers

The position on foreign ownership sounds far too simplistic for what is a complex issue.

Banning foreign donations to political parties and candidates is utterly sensible.

Transparent donation laws that require the disclosure of smaller donations (such as those above $200) in real time is vital to a strong democracy. Those sort of laws have already been enacted in a number of states including Queensland.

Federal ICAC is incredibly important to hold elected officials to account and to rebuild public trust in our political institutions. The Libs are basically the only group not on board with this.

Changing politicians' entitlements is populist bullshit and completely unnecessary if there is an independent remuneration tribunal as well as a federal ICAC.

 

[Shady Slim]

absolutely howling with laughter when i see our murdoch-conservative outlets running the stories to the gist of “look at these dumb americans who want to open up” while running other stories to the gist of “comrade dandrews and his democratic people’s republic of victoria must open up”

one genre of news story that i see a lot of here is our conservative rags laughing at dumb americans and then making the same points the dumb americans do and australian chuds lapping it up because irony and nuance are dead in the water seemingly

 

[Burgey]

Vale Jack Mundey. Almost single handedly saved the Rocks from development in the 70s with the BLF-led Green Bans. A giant. Rest in power, Comrade.

 

[NZTailender]

absolutely howling with laughter when i see our murdoch-conservative outlets running the stories to the gist of “look at these dumb americans who want to open up” while running other stories to the gist of “comrade dandrews and his democratic people’s republic of victoria must open up”

one genre of news story that i see a lot of here is our conservative rags laughing at dumb americans and then making the same points the dumb americans do and australian chuds lapping it up because irony and nuance are dead in the water seemingly

Right wing news media has more in common with the Ministry of Truth than the SJWs and left wing extremists they are so quickly to make the comparison with in regards to 1984.

 

[Line and Length]

absolutely howling with laughter when i see our murdoch-conservative outlets running the stories to the gist of “look at these dumb americans who want to open up” while running other stories to the gist of “comrade dandrews and his democratic people’s republic of victoria must open up”

one genre of news story that i see a lot of here is our conservative rags laughing at dumb americans and then making the same points the dumb americans do and australian chuds lapping it up because irony and nuance are dead in the water seemingly

Subscribe to The Guardian and watch the ABC if you want a left-wing slant on your news.

 

[Burgey]

Or, you know, just laugh at the conservative rags. If you can't see the hypocrisy and stupidity in what Slim pointed out wrt what they're saying then you're probably beyond help anyway and very like a HUN/ Terrorgraph reader. Or maybe the Govt Gazette (the Aus) if you like big words.

 

[Line and Length]

I don't engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed man Burgey. If you can't identify and accept a tongue in cheek comment without biting then you are taking life too seriously. Either that or I should avoid political threads and stick to the more light-hearted OT threads.

 

[Burgey]

That wasn't a tongue in cheek comment on your part at all. And, after saying you wanted to stay away form politics threads not long after you got here because you had problems in them on other fora before posting the policy manifesto of the Batshit Insane Party in here, then maybe you should stay out of this subbie. That's up to you, you seem a decent bloke albeit with woeful political views. That's fine. But don't fire a shot and not expect one back.

 

[Line and Length]

Honestly Burgey, are you really able to analyse the intent of anything I post without really knowing me? I have always enjoyed throwing in comments from the "Rabid Right" and the "Loony Left" to see how the rusted-on supporters react.
I regard myself as a middle-of-the-road voter having voted Labor at the last WA State election while voting Liberal on a Federal level.
It is the middle-of-the-road voters who, IMO, decide election results as the dyed-in-the-wool Liberal and Labor voters support their party through thick and thin. It's the party that can seize the middle ground, as Hawke did in Canberra and McGowan has over here, that win out.

you seem a decent bloke albeit with woeful political views

Thanks. If me seeing pros and cons in both sides of politics (especially the cons of extremes) is woeful then you can call that if you like.

But don't fire a shot and not expect one back.

But I enjoy firing shots simply to get reactions.

 

[Burgey]

Then don't complain when you get one. It's tres simple isn't it?

 

[Burgey]

I should say L&L, obviously I don't know you too well as you've not long been here, and as I said you seem a decent bloke. I am at least in part influenced by the fact that everyone else who's joined the joint, posted in the politics subbie about being a middle of the road/ swinging voter and reluctant to talk about politics before posting Loony Minor Party stuff usually ends up outing themselves as a rabid rightard within three months. So I'm no doubt clouded by that (intermittent but not infrequent) experience.

I hope that isn't you, because as I said you seem a decent bloke. But if you do go all watson on us by this time in August, I will win a bet which will get me a free lunch at Chin Chin when it reopens. So if by chance that is you, please let it out quickish.

 

[Line and Length]

Fair enough Burgey. You too are obviously a decent fellow and I respect your views. The piece I posted from a minor party was intended to gain views and comments - no more, no less. It was something I had posted in another forum and the reactions were interesting to say the least. At least there were well reasoned, rational and clear comments here.
Minor parties are, in my opinion, a blight on our political landscape - surviving only because of our preferential voting system. They generally put forward one populist view, expand it into a "policy" and hope to gain a Senate seat. We have enough cross-benchers with One Nation to the right and Greens to the left without muddying the waters with political light-weights representing parties that are here today and (hopefully) gone tomorrow.
My apologies for stirring a pot occupied by those who take their politics seriously. I will refrain from future such action and remain a moderate who sits just a little right of centre on the political spectrum.