Pap Finn Keighl
Well-known member
Because he was a specialist batsman , and he was rated very good in that by everyone.
Botham and Kapil wasn't.
And I can withdraw Rice's case as he played 0 tests. Procter's case is different.
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Top Five Cricketers from each country
- Thread starter bagapath
- Start date
Botham and Kapil wasn't.
And I can withdraw Rice's case as he played 0 tests. Procter's case is different.
Pap Finn Keighl
Well-known member
Ok .
What about Imran or Kapil comparison ?
Botham benefitted from playing too many tests in his 5 year peak . It hides his 10 year mediocrity. His numbers are skewed in that way.
Red Hill
The artist formerly known as Monk
Jesus, give it a rest will you?
Pap Finn Keighl
Well-known member
Possible
Pap Finn Keighl
Well-known member
Yes. Botham got worked out within 5 yrs.
Starfighter
Well-known member
Indeed. A five year brilliant peak with ten otherwise mediocre years is better than Kapil's sixteen year mediocrity (if judging by the same standard).
bagapath
Well-known member
not going on averages alone. botham was the true match winning allrounder of the four.
Kapil was half a step behind Beefy in every way except against West Indies. he was more consistent throughout his long career but for the last few seasons when the bowling strike rate fell badly.
imran and hadlee peaked a fraction later than botham and took different paths to greatness
hadlee remained one of the greatest bowling artistes of all time with occasional batting magic
imran was the leading fast bowler in the world when the cricketing universe was filled with fast bowling champs (81-83). that makes his bowling peak very special. he worked on his batting after the shin injury in 83/84 and became extremely reliable as a middle order bat. but never touched the heights of botham's batting highs from 77 to 82. even Kapil's exploits with the bat (tied test/ 4 Sixers in lords/ century in SA or in the Hirwani test) were beyond imran.
I will be happy if you remove rice from the discussion. keeping proctor is your call. I wouldn't though.
afterwards, we can agree to disagree on the rankings; for after all we are talking about four champions of all time.
Kapil was half a step behind Beefy in every way except against West Indies. he was more consistent throughout his long career but for the last few seasons when the bowling strike rate fell badly.
imran and hadlee peaked a fraction later than botham and took different paths to greatness
hadlee remained one of the greatest bowling artistes of all time with occasional batting magic
imran was the leading fast bowler in the world when the cricketing universe was filled with fast bowling champs (81-83). that makes his bowling peak very special. he worked on his batting after the shin injury in 83/84 and became extremely reliable as a middle order bat. but never touched the heights of botham's batting highs from 77 to 82. even Kapil's exploits with the bat (tied test/ 4 Sixers in lords/ century in SA or in the Hirwani test) were beyond imran.
I will be happy if you remove rice from the discussion. keeping proctor is your call. I wouldn't though.
afterwards, we can agree to disagree on the rankings; for after all we are talking about four champions of all time.
Last edited:
bagapath
Well-known member
Mike Procter played 7 tests.
Mike Procter - Check Procter's News, Career, Age, Rankings, Stats | ESPNcricinfo.com
h_hurricane
Well-known member
Agree with whatever you have said. People who are saying Botham was 2 levels above Kapil or there is a lot of gulf between them are smoking something else though. In a direct comparison between Botham and Dev, I would say Botham is ahead, not by much though and would put both in the same tier.
Generally I find Botham over-rated compared to the other three and several people put him on a pedestal much higher than he deserves.
OverratedSanity
Well-known member
His record outside what is considered his 5 year peak is much worse than kapils career averages, so not sure it's the same thing. In the last decade of his career Botham averaged 28.9 with the bat and 36.8 with the ball.
trundler
Well-known member
Numbers worthy of an old timey NZ all rounder
h_hurricane
Well-known member
Yes, stating that Kapil was anywhere near as mediocre as Botham for a decade is ludicrous.
Pap Finn Keighl
Well-known member
7 tests for South Africa against Australia between 1968-1970
5 matches for Rest of the world against England in 1970
4 super tests for world 11 against Australia 1978-79
Total 16 matches
700 runs
33.33 AVG
70 wkts
17.14 AVG
I agree that it makes sense to include Rest of the World matches and Packer Supertests when evaluating players. The standard of play in these games was higher than that in most Test matches played at the time.
bagapath
Well-known member
It is not right to include first class matches
ICC and Wisden don’t call them tests. They’re not tests
7 tests mean nothing.
Procter doesn’t belong here.
h_hurricane
Well-known member
This thread has made me go back and watch Botham's 149 and 118 in 1981 ashes after ages. Boy, that was something else. Those pull shots of Lillee for sixes were **** awesome. He was indeed the best batsman among the 80's quartet.