NZTailender
I can't believe I ate the whole thing
If voting's not compulsory, then you'd want a clear margin imho.
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The British Politics Thread
- Thread starter cover drive man
- Start date
cpr
Well-known member
I mean, if you're talking about 'making too much' of the Irish situation, you really need to go away and have a good read into how the border question massively affects N. Ireland, and the potentials of what could go wrong over there if it isn't handled carefully. Were not talking about trade, or EU regulation here, were actually talking about changing every day life and interaction for anyone in the area - There's a reason why every border county in Ireland voted overwhelmingly remain. Were also looking back at how the Good Friday Agreement hung on providing N. Ireland with free movement and trade with the south, and how not handling the Irish question could possibly rip that apart and remove 20 years of hard work towards peace.
Were talking about the most careful and considered decision this country has had to take in generations, knowing full well what trouble could possibly await if its messed up and rushed. It's impossible to make too much of this area. Those ERG lot who are refusing to offer a solution (pretty much like everything on Brexit, they just shout 'oh its not good enough') are diverting attention away from this to some faux 'EU regulations' argument, because that's more presentable to the public. If they make Johnny in the Midlands stop and really think how Brexit is going to physically impact on his countryman in Ireland, it becomes a very very difficult sell.
cpr
Well-known member
Also the clear margin thing, this result proves why it's usually in place. Public opinion sways quite a fair bit over times, and if you are bringing in a huge scale change then you want to be sure it is the overriding will of the populace. A close result doesn't give that sort of mandate, as theres always a section of the country that will vote with current feeling and recent arguments for/against, and can easily be swayed back again by small factors - a charasmatic speaker for the other side of the debate, a change in their personal circumstances, even just the passage of time (or, finding out the arguments that swayed them were merely made up bollocks funded by illegal donations which may well have been criminally sourced.....).
By putting in a margin, you know you are more likely to be enacting a decision that's based on the underlying beliefs of the people, not the current sway towards opinion
By putting in a margin, you know you are more likely to be enacting a decision that's based on the underlying beliefs of the people, not the current sway towards opinion
S.Kennedy
Well-known member
You are completely misquoting me. Completely!
I'm not saying I personally believe she is exhausting too much energy on the Irish border and not overlooking the the Good Friday Agreement. I am saying Theresa May's focus upon the backstop as the main contention, as if by changing it she'll magically convince Parliament to deliver the yays required, is absurd. If you look at the objections of her very own Brexiteers, they are not preoccupied with the Irish border but are setting forth a multitude of reasons why they'll reject the legislation - we can assume they are about 117? DUP: 10. It is simple arithmetic.
And then there is the rest of the house.
It is the Prime Minister who has to pass this through Parliament, and currently she is not going to, but by slightly altering the language surrounding the backstop she'll provide the solution apparently!!
andmark
Well-known member
In fairness, if sport is anything to go by, that sentiment seems to go both ways.
Uppercut
Well-known member
She’s focusing on the DUP because they can credibly threaten to bring the government down, whereas her backbenchers can only sink the withdrawal agreement.
NZTailender
I can't believe I ate the whole thing
Under current Governmental systems voting should be compulsory, everywhere. The illusion of 'freedom' in not voting doesn't make any sense in any system in the world (which of course, is why the likes of PEWS and yourself wants different systems, but that's another discussion).
A 52/48 result isn't convincing result on the issue (just like if it was a 52% win for remain). Suggests there's more in the middle ground - perhaps there are people who want to remain but are unhappy with certain aspects of the EU, and people who want to leave some aspects of the EU behind but want to keep other aspects. 66% saying remain would be clear, as would 66% leave.
S.Kennedy
Well-known member
But Wales voted to leave. Using your logic we'd be ignoring the Welsh if we ignored the result of the democratic referendum, or insisted upon its ''re-running''.
I mean heck, even within Scotland, the most pro-EU region of the UK - even more pro-EU than Greater London - 38% still voted leave!
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S.Kennedy
Well-known member
This isn't even true. I mean most of the EU itself doesn't even have compulsory voting haha!!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsory_voting
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S.Kennedy
Well-known member
As I've said, the Theresa May Ministry will dumbfound historians in years to come.
NZTailender
I can't believe I ate the whole thing
How is it not true?
Even if you don't vote, you're living in a system you didn't ask for. There's no freedom there.
GIMH
Norwood's on Fire
It’s nonsense when people say things like ‘Scotland voted remain’ anyway
Same people will never be heard saying that the U.K. voted to leave. Then it’s only 52%. But 60% of Scotland (or whatever it was, probably higher), that means Scotland voted remain
S.Kennedy
Well-known member
The point I'm making is, if the result of the EU referendum was the result of a flawed system here, then it is a flawed system that exists for the majority of the world.
There have been 48 referenda on the EU between 1972 and today and I hasten to bet the majority were not compulsory. 2016's in the UK was no different.
S.Kennedy
Well-known member
You could just as easily blame those 38% Scots for tipping the vote into the leave category than the ''evil English''.
Oh, and only 67.2% of eligible Scots bothered to vote which is markedly below the 72% eligible voter turnout. Lazy Scots scuppered the thing haha; you should have gotten off your arses and we'd be remaining then?
NZTailender
I can't believe I ate the whole thing
You haven't made a point any different to what I was making.
S.Kennedy
Well-known member
Pity 95% of countries don't agree with you.