At Least 11 Dead At 2 Tragedies in Norway

[Spark]

My understanding is that his sentence will be reviewed after 21 years, so he could (almost certainly will) get more - much more.

 

[Uppercut]

I'm not sure he'll get a jail sentence at all. He's quite clearly insane and the legal system seems to be as liberal as they come. We'll see how it pans out.

 

[Top_Cat]

Not sure what your basis for saying he's insane is, tbh.

 

[Redbacks]

What a lovely country.

Edit: Just realised this sounds a bit sarcastic. It isn't.

Surely there is grounds for serving 93 life sentences at least. It seems odd to view 1 murder equivalent to 2 and so on.

 

[Redbacks]

My understanding is that his sentence will be reviewed after 21 years, so he could (almost certainly will) get more - much more.

Yes, Norway has a danger to society element that faces 5 yearly reviews which could see him locked away for good.

 

[Burgey]

Not sure what your basis for saying he's insane is, tbh.

Wouldn't you like to think someone who does that is insane?

 

[Burgey]

Would be odd to blame gun laws in that way, they're very strict - automatic rifles are most definitely illegal. This was not your regular nutjob - this was more of your screwed but highly intelligent deep psychopath, and they are very difficult to stop.

I thought he actually registered the semi automatic weapon he used

 

[duffer]

Wouldn't you like to think someone who does that is insane?

He was obviously a twisted ****, but honestly as a lawyer who would accept an insanity plea on something like this? Even if they do, you'd hope there'd at least be a lifetime in a padded cell for him? No way you let this guy anywhere near the streets again.

 

[Burgey]

He was obviously a twisted ****, but honestly as a lawyer who would accept an insanity plea on something like this? Even if they do, you'd hope there'd at least be a lifetime in a padded cell for him? No way you let this guy anywhere near the streets again.

If insanity is offered to you as his lawyer, and the medicine backs it up, why wouldn't you take it?

In fact, you'd be duty bound to (well, here anyway, I would think).

Edit: interesting extracts from the manifesto quoted on Lateline last evening.

Oh, it even made the daily press here...

http://www.smh.com.au/world/australian-leaders-mentioned-in-manifesto-20110726-1hxhd.html

I suppose the Tampa was Norwegian, otherwise it's along, long way for that particular dog whistle to have carried.

Edit: bear in mind, the quoted document is "unverified".

 

[Top_Cat]

Wouldn't you like to think someone who does that is insane?

My point is that there's been no testing done so one can't be sure yet.

That said, that he didn't kill himself at the end/commit suicide by cop is a blow for the insanity defence. Spree killers generally have no interest in being around afterwards so that he does is one pointer towards a twisted, ****ed-up, narcissistic, but not diseased mind. He didn't flip out and go nuts with a rifle, there was a lot of thought put into this. Not only with what he did and how but also the likely response; a genuine psychotic episode generally doesn't include consideration of how others feel about or respond to the way you're acting.

This makes it all the more important that he never breathes free air again.

 

[Burgey]

My point is that there's been no testing done so one can't be sure yet. And that he didn't kill himself at the end/commit suicide by cop is a blow for the insanity defence. Spree killers generally have no interest in being around afterwards so that he does is one pointer towards a twisted, ****ed-up, narcissistic, but not diseased mind. He didn't flip out and go nuts with a rifle, there was a lot of thought put into this. Not only with what he did and how but also the likely response.

This makes it all the more important that he never breathes free air again.

Yeah that's all true. He certainly doesn't come across as a disorganised mind, does he?

I can imagine the doctors will have years of fun studying this bloke.

 

[Top_Cat]

Yeh and he seems all too willing to be that object of study. It's actually a big opportunity from a pure research perspective. The literature on spree killers is abysmal because, as they're usually dead, it's all 2nd/3rd hand sources and pieces of the puzzled assembled after the fact. I know of guys who've tried to unlock Martin Bryant but he's never been willing to talk.

How long until we hear about this guy's strained relationship with his Mum I wonder?

 

[howardj]

Yeah, I guess all the pre-planning etc, would go against the legal definition of insanity. Still, on some level, you do have to be insane to unleash such carnage, even if not legally so. Again though, I go back to the gun laws and not just availablity but manufacturing also - you can't identify and lock up all monsters, but geez you can certainly limit the damage they can inflict. Granted, some guns would fall through the cracks, but to my mind it's all about limiting instances. You can never flat out eliminate all of them.

 

[Top_Cat]

Depends on whether you're talking about a clinical or colloquial definition of 'insane'.

tbh, I'd be more comfortable if he was just nuts, eating his own **** and masturbating next to the burning carcass of his cat; not many people like that slip under the radar any more. The possibility that someone is perfectly rational (if incredibly narcissistic/warped, etc.) and could be led to an act like this via upbringing/politics/media is far more worrying.

 

[duffer]

If insanity is offered to you as his lawyer, and the medicine backs it up, why wouldn't you take it?

In fact, you'd be duty bound to (well, here anyway, I would think).

Edit: interesting extracts from the manifesto quoted on Lateline last evening.

Oh, it even made the daily press here...

Australian leaders mentioned in 'manifesto'

I suppose the Tampa was Norwegian, otherwise it's along, long way for that particular dog whistle to have carried.

Edit: bear in mind, the quoted document is "unverified".

The point I was trying to get at was more along the lines of even if he does plead insanity, surely there's a provision to lock this guy up for life in a lunatic asylum or somewhere like that. Guys is a sick ****.

 

[Top_Cat]

I'd prefer that. It's much harder to get released from secure MH than a prison. At least in prison, even if it takes a few years, you can be elligible for parole and prove your re-habilitated, etc. If you're locked up in a loony bin, you have to spend years proving you're of sound mind/body before subsequently doing the above.

Pleading insanity if you aren't isn't much of a tactic, really. Remember a case of a Brit who, facing a head sentence of 8 years in prison, pleaded successfully that he was nuts. Now, 12 years later, he's claiming to the press he faked the whole thing with no release from his current 'prison' in sight......

You're crazy if you try to plead insanity.

 

[PhoenixFire]

icwutudidther

But this is all moot because he won't ever be released, right?

 

[Nate]

I'm sad that my post was overlooked.

 

[Top_Cat]

icwutudidther

But this is all moot because he won't ever be released, right?

You'd hope not but.....

 

[_Ed_]

Good to see the number of deaths go down from 93 to 76, although that's still obviously an awful number.