Gilchrist vs Flower as test bats

[Fuller Pilch]

Lol my bad not sure why I thought otherwise. Pretty stupid in hindsight to think that too. Of course anyone is going to average less coming in when the score is lower even just because it's on average going to be more bowler friendly conditions

Except BJ "uphill skier" Watling

 

[Bolo.]

I seem to remember somebody posting stats about Kallis averaging basically exactly the same from number 4 regardless of what score he walked in on. Surprised me, because quality swing seemed his biggest weakness, and when the SA top folded, it was usually to swing. Can anyone stats this?

 

[honestbharani]

I don't find it surprising at all about Kallis. He always seemed to bat in his own bubble irrespective of the situation most of the time in tests.

 

[trundler]

Ponting averaged more after an early wicket

 

[Bolo.]

I don't find it surprising at all about Kallis. He always seemed to bat in his own bubble irrespective of the situation most of the time in tests.

Sounds like a compliment in this case. Is typically levelled as a criticism.

But TJBs point still stands. When everyone else is going cheap, it is typically because things are tough. You can bat in a bubble and not feel match pressure etc., but you expect to fold cheaper against better bowling regardless of your mental place.

 

[StephenZA]

The number of times Kallis did not walk in when the score was sub 100 when batting at 3/4 is few and far between, at least for the first half of his career. Everybody knew that you got Kallis early and the likelihood of SA folding increased ten fold.

 

[StephenZA]

I seem to remember somebody posting stats about Kallis averaging basically exactly the same from number 4 regardless of what score he walked in on. Surprised me, because quality swing seemed his biggest weakness, and when the SA top folded, it was usually to swing. Can anyone stats this?

I think that every batsmen struggles against quality swing bowling.

 

[Daemon]

Lol my bad not sure why I thought otherwise. Pretty stupid in hindsight to think that too. Of course anyone is going to average less coming in when the score is lower even just because it's on average going to be more bowler friendly conditions

Made that up ftr but apology accepted

 

[TheJediBrah]

Ponting averaged more after an early wicket

Meh not really that strange for someone batting up the order. 1 or 2 early wickets can happen pretty easily regardless.of conditions. Coming in at 5 down though, the score when you reach the crease is more indicative of difficulty of conditions.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Made that up ftr but apology accepted

Don't mess with me

 

[honestbharani]

Sounds like a compliment in this case. Is typically levelled as a criticism.

But TJBs point still stands. When everyone else is going cheap, it is typically because things are tough. You can bat in a bubble and not feel match pressure etc., but you expect to fold cheaper against better bowling regardless of your mental place.

Oh yeah, the ability to shut out game situation and bat the same way is a helpful asset most of the time to a batsman. Pujara is pretty much the same thing. I defintiely meant it as a compliment.

 

[harsh.ag]

Made that up ftr but apology accepted

 

[Coronis]

Flower was a better test batsman.

 

[Bolo.]

Oh yeah, the ability to shut out game situation and bat the same way is a helpful asset most of the time to a batsman. Pujara is pretty much the same thing. I defintiely meant it as a compliment.

True, now that I stop and think of it. I always associate Kallis's bubble with something negative, cos he didnt accelerate when needed, but I guess it cuts both ways, and is part of what made him a rock

 

[Victor Ian]

In Daemon's profile he has Likes Received, Likes Given, Stats Believed, Stats Questioned.

 

[John1990]

Flower

 

[_00_deathscar]

Flower - he was in discussion for best batsman in the world for a while. He's severely underrated on this forum I reckon, despite having incredible stats.

 

[trundler]

I would say he's getting due recognition here but doesn't generally. Only Australians think Gilchrist was better.

 

[vcs]

Nah I do too, but Gilchrist was one of my favorites and I think CW can undervalue the importance of SR as a metric in Tests. Gilchrist's SR is incredible. I also can't keep "watchability" from influencing how I rate players.

 

[morgieb]

I would say he's getting due recognition here but doesn't generally. Only Australians think Gilchrist was better.

So poor. Even in this thread plenty of Australians have conceded that Flower is a better bat or at least on a similar level.