**Official** COVID-19 Discussion

[zorax]

i too want there to be 15 seats per row with extra charges for meals, tv and using the toilet

government backed budget airlines are as much, if not more, to blame for cost-saving measures and the decline in service standards. They are the ones that are hemorrhaging money, and in trying to cut costs they end up making the service worse. A privately run airline the has to either compete with that by lowering their own service quality, or they switch course and go the route of being a full-on luxury airline, at which point they have to compete against Emirates and Qatar.

the industry is just broken.

 

[Shady Slim]

somebody's done a first year economics course and they're not afraid to show it

 

[vcs]

I'm not right wing but the Govt. run airlines have been utter shite in India as well and things got much better when private operators came in, so I agree with zorax (though I am far from informed on this topic).

The Indian Railways is pretty awesome though, I doubt any private operator would have been able to do what they've done.

 

[zorax]

somebody's done a first year economics course and they're not afraid to show it

i have a lot of friends who work in Cathay and worked for a bit in Aviation as well, so I've heard these arguments a lot.

The Indian Railways is pretty awesome though, I doubt any private operator would have been able to do what they've done.

do they break even/make a profit?

 

[GIMH]

i too want there to be 15 seats per row with extra charges for meals, tv and using the toilet

I too want to subsidise you going on holiday

 

[vcs]

I don't particularly care TBH. As long as they aren't egregiously loss making, I'm fine with them.

 

[Daemon]

But if it was all privatised, wouldn't airfare just be significantly more expensive and hinder business and tourism?

 

[RossTaylorsBox]

Yeah but then the dirty poors wouldn't ride the plane with you.

 

[Line and Length]

What about the ocean cruise industry? Floating petri dishes.

 

[Spark]

As in many things, I think the Swiss have the best model for utilities/critical infrastructure that is regarded as of core national importance and thus has to be protected somewhat from the whims of the market and where profit is not necessarily always the main goal: a limited corporation with the national/local governments the principal (or only) shareholders by law.

 

[Daemon]

Ah, like China

 

[Flem274*]

I too want to subsidise you going on holiday

thanks man i owe you a beer when i make it to england one day

 

[zorax]

But if it was all privatised, wouldn't airfare just be significantly more expensive and hinder business and tourism?

Depends how the scenario plays out right. If all governments pulled out their investment in airlines overnight, then sure, that's going to happen. But I don't believe the solution is 100% privatised airlines across the board. You will definitely need government airlines or subsidies/legislation to keep prices on less popular routes reasonable. Like, Jharkhand to Jaipur is not lucrative enough for any private airline to serve at a price point that people living in those places can actually afford. So Air India steps in to fill that gap. But Air India does not need to be serving HK to Delhi (for the sake of argument, idk if it's actually a good enough example). That's a popular enough route to allow private airlines to compete with each other and have 'reasonable' prices without Air India artificially dragging the price down.

I also don't necessarily think it's a bad thing if the cheapest options on the market are removed. Pilots, cabin crew and aircraft engineers/technicians are increasingly becoming an exploited work force, and many airlines are cutting corners on safety and reducing their service quality. If an airline tries to address these issues and raise their prices, pushing themselves into the 'luxury' airline class, they run into the bottomless pockets of Emirates and Qatar, and that's a battle they will never win. So basically no one tries to compete now days (Cathay is trying and struggling hard), and every just fights for the lower end of the market. If you remove the presence of government airlines at that end of the market on some major routes, you give these private airlines more breathing room, and as a result improve standards across the board. But who knows, it's just as likely prices go up, standards stay the same, and the CEOs pocket the difference #eattherich

 

[Spark]

100% privatised airlines simply isn't going to happen. Many countries see them as national prestige projects as I said, but many more see at least having one significant locally owned and operated airline with decent capacity as a matter of national security, so you're always going to get heavy state involvement in airlines all over the place and that really won't ever change.

I will say though, in the one place where you do basically see a mostly-deregulated market in terms of ownership etc etc (the US), airfares there are comparatively pretty cheap. Albeit the service is not the greatest.

 

[duffer]

do they break even/make a profit?

I'm not sure overall but they do in some aspects

 

[Bolo.]

But if it was all privatised, wouldn't airfare just be significantly more expensive and hinder business and tourism?

Airlines don't really work this way, at least not in most countries. You may get some exceptions like Dubai, where they are happy to subsidise to build travel hubs, but normally there isnt a cost saving- the lack profit motive advantage tends to get eaten by inefficiencies rather than cost savings.

State owned enterprises are better in areas in which natural monopolies exist, like airports.

Free market competition is an extremely good thing in the airline industry. And while you can argue that national airlines are good or necessary or whatever, they arent what drives prices down, particulary at an intranational/ intraregional level.

 

[Bolo.]

A few provinces in China with zero/ near zero confirmed active infections are starting to think about encouraging people to go out to stimulate the local economy. People are barely going out at all, and small businesses are suffering. Restaurants in particular, which seems like one of the worst risk/reward aspects when it comes to economy vs social distancing. Bit of a policy change from the country that has been arguably the most catious so far.

One province considering mandating government employees go out every day, even if just on lunch breaks. Very odd.

 

[Redbacks]

It's safer to fly than drive so to be consistent with the times we are in the government should prop up airlines to prevent deaths

 

[RossTaylorsBox]

Lmao at this Stanford study.

 

[Flem274*]

the most competitive pricing i've seen is on those really dubious airlines like ryanair, who were always delaying or cancelling flights over the intercom when i was in romes airport.

to asia and europe i always fly air nz, singapore (best) or cathay (distant third). reasonable pricing and you know the flight will be as good as 20+ hours can be.

vietnams airline is my favourite short international flight. they have two speeds - stop and go.