Yeah it really has. I don't know why it surprises me, because most political issues are debated extremely poorly on the whole, but it's really annoyed me.
and they say conservatives are champions of Accountability.
That and the blatant disregard for the facts of almost every issue he finds himself discussing.
What is the strong case for Brexit that isn't being made?
You've said it before, the whole Brexit campaign is basically fronted by the least trustworthy people imaginable. That in itself weakens the whole thing from the very off.
I`m waiting for the day that they have Corbyn and Boris on the stage debating who is next leader of the country... could probably invite the Official Monster Raving Loony Party without it looking to out of place.
I think Remain are making a defensive argument because it's so important to frame the question as "In vs. Out?" rather than "EU good or EU bad?" It's not a good time to be speaking passionately in favour of federalism. Although I do wonder whether it will cement Britain's lack of identification with the rest of Europe, like the Scottish referendum did for their identification with the UK.
Are these questions really mutually exclusive though? I'd contend that they probably aren't, and that's irrespective of my own views on what the answer to either might be.
Of course they're not mutually exclusive? I don't think I really follow your point there. I just meant that if they try to make a strong positive case for the EU, people who don't buy it might vote Leave. When all they really had to do was point out how bad the risk-reward equation for leaving is.
I suppose that's true, but it strikes me that this is a disingenuous and intellectually dishonest way of making a point, because a lot of relevant information has been deliberately omitted. Starting with "better in" type arguments is to make the assumption that the EU itself is normatively and ethically sound, and there are an abundance of reasons which indicate it might not be.
What argument would you make for it being ethically unsound?
One of the main and most general ones for me is the fact that EU legislation can only ever be initiated by non-elected bureaucrats.
Though there is some nuance to that, it bites me too. The rotten thing, though, is that all over Europe the eurosceptics are vehemently against solving this, whereas the pro-EU bunch actually are for it. It's really a ****ed up situation.
Is there?
Yeah. These bureaucrats are actually appointed by politicians. I won't take the bait and actually defend it, but it they are the result of political process.
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Oh right yeah, fair enough, I thought you were addressing the point about the Commission being the only body that could initiate new legislation.Yeah. These bureaucrats are actually appointed by politicians. I won't take the bait and actually defend it, but it they are the result of political process.
Focus on the some, rather than the nuance
