The British Politics Thread

[Furball]

In my area there is a lot of hatred towards the EU because they destroyed our fishing industry.

Britain destroyed it's own fishing industry. The EU is a convenient bogeyman.

 

[S.Kennedy]

Britain destroyed it's own fishing industry. The EU is a convenient bogeyman.

I don't think that is true and in fact the Common Fisheries Policy is one of the main reasons why Norway and Iceland have remained outside the EU, but irrespective, you'd have to convince people in maritime communities, who did not base their vote around migration, otherwise as currently you'll not hear a good word said about the EU - at least based on where I live.

 

[S.Kennedy]

I was in Crete last year and the Greeks absolutely loath the EU.

 

[cpr]

There's truth in both sides of it. Norway and Iceland do keep out because of the importance of fishing, but at the same time we've got to remember they are feeding far lower populations than the UK (5.5m between them), so aren't fishing as heavily as we are. The idea that Britain would've just allowed fishing to continue unabated is misguided, we'd have come under both internal and international pressure to impose conservation measures as fish levels depleted - even with the CFP its been a case of too little, too late for the North Sea.
The main crux of it is that Fishing, like Coalmining, was an industry doomed to shrink. The issue was the Governments did absolutely nothing to help the communities affected by this, leaving them to wither and suffer extreme hardships. With fishing towns they had a convenient scapegoat for their inactivities, which in a way they are reaping the side benefits of now.
I see it myself when I head up to where my family live in Morecambe, much like those on the east coast it was very dependant on its fishing industry (with a sideline in tourism), yet the town massively hit rock bottom in the late 70's/80s and is barely dragging itself back up - and this is in a very much Tory constituency (the rest of the constituency is very dominated by active farming). Even today the town centre has a sad feeling of neglect and being behind the times, despite it finally getting much needed investment - the M6 link which was offered to be built in the 60s by Heysham docks but rejected as 'unimportant' has finally been done at a massive cost, and that's had a huge difference as prior it was nigh on impossible to reach as it required travelling through Lancaster city centre and out on one gridlocked road. Even still, the local economy is dominated by Heysham port, and fishing is still it's identifying trade.
I can't say I've discussed at length the EU up there, but it does crop up in convo in the pub and at gatherings, and its a huge leave town. Fishing does get a mention, but still its immigration and 'sovereignty' that crop up. I say I don't discuss it much, because my mum is a massive leave supporter because of immigration, basing it on a few tales of woe from her ex-squaddie/prison warden husband than the 60 years of prosperity she had as the child of immigrants..... (trying to convince her that there is little difference between Windrush evictees and her own mother is the fact that being in the EU gives her right to stay is a tough gig)

 

[S.Kennedy]

There's truth in both sides of it. Norway and Iceland do keep out because of the importance of fishing, but at the same time we've got to remember they are feeding far lower populations than the UK (5.5m between them), so aren't fishing as heavily as we are. The idea that Britain would've just allowed fishing to continue unabated is misguided, we'd have come under both internal and international pressure to impose conservation measures as fish levels depleted - even with the CFP its been a case of too little, too late for the North Sea.
The main crux of it is that Fishing, like Coalmining, was an industry doomed to shrink. The issue was the Governments did absolutely nothing to help the communities affected by this, leaving them to wither and suffer extreme hardships. With fishing towns they had a convenient scapegoat for their inactivities, which in a way they are reaping the side benefits of now.
I see it myself when I head up to where my family live in Morecambe, much like those on the east coast it was very dependant on its fishing industry (with a sideline in tourism), yet the town massively hit rock bottom in the late 70's/80s and is barely dragging itself back up - and this is in a very much Tory constituency (the rest of the constituency is very dominated by active farming). Even today the town centre has a sad feeling of neglect and being behind the times, despite it finally getting much needed investment - the M6 link which was offered to be built in the 60s by Heysham docks but rejected as 'unimportant' has finally been done at a massive cost, and that's had a huge difference as prior it was nigh on impossible to reach as it required travelling through Lancaster city centre and out on one gridlocked road. Even still, the local economy is dominated by Heysham port, and fishing is still it's identifying trade.
I can't say I've discussed at length the EU up there, but it does crop up in convo in the pub and at gatherings, and its a huge leave town. Fishing does get a mention, but still its immigration and 'sovereignty' that crop up. I say I don't discuss it much, because my mum is a massive leave supporter because of immigration, basing it on a few tales of woe from her ex-squaddie/prison warden husband than the 60 years of prosperity she had as the child of immigrants..... (trying to convince her that there is little difference between Windrush evictees and her own mother is the fact that being in the EU gives her right to stay is a tough gig)

I think it is less to do with environmentalism and sustainability and more to do with the perception of British fishermen having to throw away their catch because of EU regulation whilst Spanish and French fishermen trawl British waters - that is at least what is relayed to me.

 

[cpr]

Again though, thats thanks to lovely painting of the picture. Sure both happen, but British ships fish in Spanish and French waters, and Spanish and French sailors have to chuck away their catch if they overfish. The idea of that is a misguided attempt at sustainability - encourage people to just fish what they are allowed, but instead it leads to overfishing then grumpiness when now dead fish are chucked away, because humans can't play nice.

Similar to my mums outlook, people who staunchly stick to that are people who select 10-20% of the narrative and look no further, as what they have conforms to their desired beliefs. Over time that becomes, in their heads, 90% of the whole picture because the rest of it is filtered out so much - and that's completely reinforced by a media/political culture that want people following certain rhetorics. Convincing people to see beyond those self imposed boundaries is nigh on impossible.

So yeah, nothing incorrect in what you've described, and I can definitely understand how communities built around fishing have ended up with these views. Its pretty frustrating as an outsider looking in when you see those who have really caused the damage getting away with it though.

 

[Furball]

I think it is less to do with environmentalism and sustainability and more to do with the perception of British fishermen having to throw away their catch because of EU regulation whilst Spanish and French fishermen trawl British waters - that is at least what is relayed to me.

In Scotland, the nasty foreign fishermen come because local fishermen decided that they fancied a better life than heading out on a boat in choppy as **** waters every day and sold their quotas.

We do exactly the same to the French for what it's worth. British fishermen have a habit of ignoring local French rules about fishing for scallops, and we can hide behind EU legislation (or in this case, lack of) where it comes to scallop fishing.

 

[Furball]

The other irony with fishermen being so pro-leave is that the majority of what is caught in British waters is exported because there is not the market for it in Britain. Fishermen need the single market for their business to be sustainable.

 

[NZTailender]

I feel like this is one of those Scooby Doo moments where they capture the 'EU' for killing off x local industry but when they pull off the mask they find out it's old man capitalism who has preyed on an unsustainable industry model.

 

[andmark]

CNN has hardly covered itself in glory with its Brexit coverage. This article for example speaks of people buying survival boxes in preparation for a no deal Brexit. To get on the front page of CNN, you'd expect it to be a huge number of people, but no, it's only 600. That is 0.00091% of the population. Seriously, CNN have been hysterical about Brexit to the extent that it feels like they want it to be a disaster.

 

[NZTailender]

A mainstream news outlet being sensational and hysterical? i am shook

 

[Uppercut]

CNN has hardly covered itself in glory with its Brexit coverage. This article for example speaks of people buying survival boxes in preparation for a no deal Brexit. To get on the front page of CNN, you'd expect it to be a huge number of people, but no, it's only 600. That is 0.00091% of the population. Seriously, CNN have been hysterical about Brexit to the extent that it feels like they want it to be a disaster.

Mate, you should see how Irish politics is covered in the British press.

 

[sledger]

May suggesting this letter from the EU has legal force is an embarrassing lie. It's actually really beginning to look like no brexit is s viable possibility. Tomorrow could be itstl

 

[Furball]

May warning that not voting for her deal risks no Brexit really isn't selling her deal at all.

 

[cpr]

May warning that not voting for her deal risks no Brexit really isn't selling her deal at all.

It's a scare tactic that'll only work on 20% of the people its aimed at, whilst massively appealing to about 40% of the people its aimed at.

Its like threatening to bring on Steve Harmison against someone who slightly prefers spin bowling but also has an impeccable cover drive

 

[StephenZA]

 

[sledger]

Today is going to be lolsy.

One way or another there is going to be a lot of crying on Twitter etc. later.

 

[Burgey]

You guys should go ahead with a hard Brexit (whatever that means) then let corbyn be PM in your glorious isolationism. You’ll be Cuba with a **** climate.

 

[sledger]

It's going to be v amusing.

Looks like May's deal will possibly suffer the most humiliating defeat in parliamentary history. Corbyn, therefore, will have little option but to call for a vote of no confidence. The problem, however, is that such a motion also runs a high risk of being defeated. Which means everything really will be up **** creek, as we will be left with a lame duck government that nobody wants, but an opposition that is too hopeless to get them out.

May will then have to plough on (unless she resigns I suppose, but I doubt that will happen), will be pressured into going back to Brussels again to ask for more concessions. This request will be rejected immediately (and rightly so), and then it's back to the drawing board. The only options will essentially be no deal or no brexit, and it's looking more and more likely that it'll be the latter,

 

[sledger]

It would also be incredibly funny if a general election is the outcome and Labour loses again. The amount of crying that would generate would be incredible.

It'd also be awful to get another term of this terrible government of course, but that's still a more preferable option for me personally than Corbyn as PM. Not that I'd bother voting this time round I don't suppose.