The Paedophile Hunter

[sledger]

I haven't watched the show but something just doesn't sit right with me about this concept. I mean the guys caught are clearly ****s but something feels completely broken about the whole process,

Not seen this show, but there is a definite feel of entrapment about To Catch a Predator, which I assume this is basically the UK counterpart of. If a TV show is making you feel pity for a pederast, you know it's a bad thing.

 

[zorax]

Not seen this show, but there is a definite feel of entrapment about To Catch a Predator, which I assume this is basically the UK counterpart of. If a TV show is making you feel pity for a pederast, you know it's a bad thing.

I've had this debate before, and would love to here CW's view on this.

What's wrong with being a Pedophile?

Assuming you are not a part of producing or consuming child pornography, that you have never laid hands of a child, and the only images/videos you get yourself off on are those available in the public domain...who are you hurting?

How is being born with some wiring messed up in your brain that makes you find children sexually attractive different to being born gay? Or rather, how does that make you worse?

 

[GIMH]

I've had this debate before, and would love to here CW's view on this.

What's wrong with being a Pedophile?

Assuming you are not a part of producing or consuming child pornography, that you have never laid hands of a child, and the only images/videos you get yourself off on are those available in the public domain...who are you hurting?

How is being born with some wiring messed up in your brain that makes you find children sexually attractive different to being born gay? Or rather, how does that make you worse?

For those videos to be made, you know kids have to be involved yeah? Those videos exist because people get off on them. It really is that simple.

 

[zorax]

Not a part of producing or consuming GIMH.

 

[Uppercut]

So the idea is that they're just looking at random fully-clothed pictures of children they find on the internet? I don't think that even is illegal. But since paedophilia tends to be regressive it should definitely, definitely be heavily stigmatised.

 

[sledger]

So the idea is that they're just looking at random fully-clothed pictures of children they find on the internet? I don't think that even is illegal. But since paedophilia tends to be regressive it should definitely, definitely be heavily stigmatised.

Yeah, you're right, it's not illegal at all. Like you say though, one thing tends to lead to another. There is no way having sexual desires about a child is in any way a good thing; in fact comparing/likening it to homosexuality is pretty dodgy to say the least.

 

[zorax]

Well, not all pedophilia is regressive, firstly. And secondly, the slippery slope argument is, in itself, a slippery slope. If you think simply having sexual desires about a child will lead to you eventually consuming child porn/assaulting a child, then you might as well say watching BDSM or having desire for rough sex could lead to rape.

You shouldn't, IMO, stigmatise someone simply for having certain desires or intentions. Punish/Reward the actions, not the intent.

 

[sledger]

There is no way that sexual activity with a child could ever be considered anything other than an act of horrible, vile, and terrible abuse. I do not see why someone should not be stigmatised for desiring something that is mind-bendingly atrocious.

 

[zorax]

There is no way that sexual activity with a child could ever be considered anything other than an act of horrible, vile, and terrible abuse. I do not see why someone should not be stigmatised for desiring something that is mind-bendingly atrocious.

I agree.

I specified clearly punish actions, not intent.

It's the intent I'm debating here. Would you criminalise intent? Even if they haven't broken any laws? Why?

 

[sledger]

I agree.

I specified clearly punish actions, not intent.

It's the intent I'm debating here. Would you criminalise intent? Even if they haven't broken any laws? Why?

I said stigmatise, not criminalise. And so did you.

 

[zorax]

I said stigmatise, not criminalise. And so did you.

Ok. So you are ok with stigmatising intent?

 

[sledger]

I've already made my thoughts on that clear.

 

[Uppercut]

Ok. So you are ok with stigmatising intent?

... yes, obviously? Why wouldn't we be?

You should probably stop because you're talking bollocks.

 

[zorax]

... yes, obviously? Why wouldn't we be?

Why not treat it instead of stigmatising it?

 

[sledger]

Nobody is suggesting things like this should not be treated.

 

[zorax]

Shows like this do not help though, nor does the culture of reacting to Pedophiles with "Ewww, you're a creep and a threat to kids everyhwere".

Think about violent schizophrenics. People with PTSD. Drug addicts. People with anger issues. We criminalise their actions, but we also seek to rehab them where possible. Why not the same for Pedos?

Much like any other form of mental illness, we need to first learn to accept it, and then we can begin to treat it.

 

[sledger]

Shows like this do not help though, nor does the culture of reacting to Pedophiles with "Ewww, you're a creep and a threat to kids everyhwere".

Think about violent schizophrenics. People with PTSD. Drug addicts. People with anger issues. We criminalise their actions, but we also seek to rehab them where possible. Why not the same for Pedos?

Much like any other form of mental illness, we need to first learn to accept it, and then we can begin to treat it.

Rehab programmes do exist for this sort of thing. You are making a straw man here.

 

[Spark]

... yes, obviously? Why wouldn't we be?

You should probably stop because you're talking bollocks.

Haha, I love the "this is a question with such an obvious answer that the fact I have to point this out is kind of disturbing" vibe to this post

 

[zorax]

Rehab programmes do exist for this sort of thing. You are making a straw man here.

Not seen this show, but there is a definite feel of entrapment about To Catch a Predator, which I assume this is basically the UK counterpart of. If a TV show is making you feel pity for a pederast, you know it's a bad thing.

I don't think I am.

Rehab programmes exist for everything. The point is, as a society, we've reached a stage where we can sympathise with suffers of PTSD, schizophrenia, dementia, and even with psychopaths (to the point we are comfortable having them as protagonists for our television shows)....but a pedophile still carries a huge black mark.

If you are a Pedophile, you must be an awful human being.
If you are a Pedophile, you must be a threat to society.
Entrapment is wrong, but it's okay if you use it to catch a pedophile.

It's not the right way to go about it, IMO. Stigmatising pedophiles and tossing them in jail for consuming child porn isn't a sustainable way to stop that vile industry.

Instead, if we as a society encouraged those who felt this way to come out and seek help ASAP, and made them feel safe and not like some sort of monster, then we can get them the help they need. What we have now, is that we've got youngsters who are realising that they have these desires, and instead of being open about them, they hide them, because confessing to finding young kids sexually attractive brings upon them a whole word of hate and shame that they don't want to face. Good help, and sympathetic therapists, are fare and few.

So naturally as a result these closeted pedohlies try their best to satisfy their urges however they can, instead of getting help to get rid of them. And that's how you end up with the white collar middle class man with 2 kids in the house down the street with the nice job suddenly being hauled away for have 200 gigs of child porn hidden in a computer in the basement.

I understand regressing pedophiles are a whole other issue, and generally the type of people who slip into it are the ones who will claim they aren't pedophiles. In their case entrapment is probably the only way to catch them out. But then to broadcast that entrapment to the public, make a big scene out of it, embarrass the people who are caught...how are you going to get people to admit they are pedophiles and look to seek help this way?

Stop hating on pedophiles. Encourage them instead to come out and seek help ASAP. Treat it like you would depression or any other mental illness. Help them cure their desires. Thus reduce the demand for kiddy porn. Thus save more young kids from that horrible experience.

 

[fredfertang]

I don't think I am.

Rehab programmes exist for everything. The point is, as a society, we've reached a stage where we can sympathise with suffers of PTSD, schizophrenia, dementia, and even with psychopaths (to the point we are comfortable having them as protagonists for our television shows)....but a pedophile still carries a huge black mark.

If you are a Pedophile, you must be an awful human being.
If you are a Pedophile, you must be a threat to society.
Entrapment is wrong, but it's okay if you use it to catch a pedophile.

It's not the right way to go about it, IMO. Stigmatising pedophiles and tossing them in jail for consuming child porn isn't a sustainable way to stop that vile industry.

Instead, if we as a society encouraged those who felt this way to come out and seek help ASAP, and made them feel safe and not like some sort of monster, then we can get them the help they need. What we have now, is that we've got youngsters who are realising that they have these desires, and instead of being open about them, they hide them, because confessing to finding young kids sexually attractive brings upon them a whole word of hate and shame that they don't want to face. Good help, and sympathetic therapists, are fare and few.

So naturally as a result these closeted pedohlies try their best to satisfy their urges however they can, instead of getting help to get rid of them. And that's how you end up with the white collar middle class man with 2 kids in the house down the street with the nice job suddenly being hauled away for have 200 gigs of child porn hidden in a computer in the basement.

I understand regressing pedophiles are a whole other issue, and generally the type of people who slip into it are the ones who will claim they aren't pedophiles. In their case entrapment is probably the only way to catch them out. But then to broadcast that entrapment to the public, make a big scene out of it, embarrass the people who are caught...how are you going to get people to admit they are pedophiles and look to seek help this way?

Stop hating on pedophiles. Encourage them instead to come out and seek help ASAP. Treat it like you would depression or any other mental illness. Help them cure their desires. Thus reduce the demand for kiddy porn. Thus save more young kids from that horrible experience.

There's help out there if people ask for it - its provided by the same people who have to try and help the convicted

But you have to bear in mind that many child sex offenders are amongst the most prolific offenders there are and their resourcefulness and deviousness knows no bounds and, whilst they know the right things to say and will say them to those whose assistance they require, they have absolutely no shame at all about what they do - believe me I've had to deal with a fair few of them over the years, and when they are being honest the vast majority are totally unrepentant