World Politics Thread

[Spark]

Yeah that's been one of the more interesting trends in European politics this year: the replacement of traditional social-democratic parties and the old-school centre right liberal parties both with greens. Similar thing is probably going to happen in Germany soon too, with a CDU/Green coalition.

But it's worth noting that these are quite different Greens from the US/Canadian/UK type.

 

[Magrat Garlick]

But it's worth noting that these are quite different Greens from the US/Canadian/UK type.

how do you mean? German-language Greens have a fair few post-68 hippies as members and voters, and trace their roots mainly back to the anti-nuclear weapons campaigns and the "limits to growth" ethos. They've perhaps been more keen to go into government and therefore having to defend more pragmatic policies but that's mainly a function of how PR coalitions work.

 

[andmark]

did you ask them did they even know who the guy was before he was terminated?

Well I had to say Iran has strong relations with Russia, so I could guess the answer.

 

[StephenZA]

how do you mean? German-language Greens have a fair few post-68 hippies as members and voters, and trace their roots mainly back to the anti-nuclear weapons campaigns and the "limits to growth" ethos. They've perhaps been more keen to go into government and therefore having to defend more pragmatic policies but that's mainly a function of how PR coalitions work.

I think they have grown from the early days largely because the political systems actually gives them a voice, which has made them a bit more pragmatic. The 'green' parties in USA/UK never get a voice other than as a protest one.

 

[Spark]

I think they have grown from the early days largely because the political systems actually gives them a voice, which has made them a bit more pragmatic. The 'green' parties in USA/UK never get a voice other than as a protest one.

Yeah this is what I mean. The Greens in these PR central European Parliaments actually aim to be serious parties of government and operate as such. Not so in the US/UK.

 

[Flem274*]

green parties tend to be extremely technologically regressive so if this is a trend then it's going to be harder to adapt to climate change

 

[RossTaylorsBox]

Adapting to climate change is probably going to be technologically regressive.

 

[StephenZA]

green parties tend to be extremely technologically regressive so if this is a trend then it's going to be harder to adapt to climate change

That is not quite true. It comes back to the conversation above, the more pragmatic greens, versus the extreme protesters.

Adapting to climate change is probably going to be technologically regressive.

I feel the exact opposite will be true. It will have to be a social change, with society making an active attempt to move away from consumerism and greed. That is unlikely to happen.

 

[RossTaylorsBox]

That's not going to be spurred on by "better" technology.

 

[StephenZA]

That's not going to be spurred on by "better" technology.

It won't be spurred by technology. It will be spurred by social change. But the use of technology to allow for easier and better adaption of society to the changes needed will be an important aspect.

We are not talking about the new i-phone here when we talk technological development.

 

[Flem274*]

germany are punting all their nuclear which is silly. nz should open the floodgates to gmo foods.

but the hippies are scared of these things. windmills and overpriced organic trash for everybody, or at least the middle class who can afford it.

 

[Magrat Garlick]

germany are punting all their nuclear which is silly.

a lot of people say this but all the other countries which are supposedly embracing the science and keeping nuclear power going don't actually seem to be able to build new plants at a reasonable cost.

also, as a species we're notably lazy ****ups, not really well suited to the discipline required to operate a nuclear plant

 

[StephenZA]

Germany getting rid of their nuclear off the back of a knee-jerk public reaction was stupid. And although I would love to have been building nuclear power stations in the last 40 years or so it did not happen due to the silly continued public perception from the 1950's. But building nuclear power stations now that may be ready in 20 years time is of no point when we probably have better solutions coming down the pipeline. Investing in nuclear fusion technology as the back bone of future energy needs is the ideal, don't think it will happen as long as the oil companies exist.

 

[RossTaylorsBox]

Lol all of the adaptations provided by technology are going to be for maintaining the lifestyles of the rich for the final 100 years.

 

[Magrat Garlick]

i'm not usually one for conspiracies but the official explanation of the Ukrainian airplane crash in Iran doesn't sound very convincing

 

[Daemon]

Everyone dead. ****ing hell.

 

[weldone]

Oh

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-51055219

 

[D/L]

Iran's insistence that the plane was downed by engine failure becomes ever more incredible.

 

[Kirkut]

Made a huge mistake of watching the video of how the missiles hit the aircraft. I need a serious detox now.

 

[Bahnz]

a lot of people say this but all the other countries which are supposedly embracing the science and keeping nuclear power going don't actually seem to be able to build new plants at a reasonable cost.

also, as a species we're notably lazy ****ups, not really well suited to the discipline required to operate a nuclear plant

TBH, I think this is probably because the nuclear sector has been straight-jacketed by overly cautious regulations over the past 30 years. I know that sounds crazy to anyone who's watched Chernobyl. But if France could build enough power-plants in 10 years to basically power their entire electricity grid and run them for 40 years with a perfect safety record, then I struggle to believe the "Nuclear can't possibly be economically competitive" argument. I also noticed a couple of weeks back that Germany's decision to close down its nuclear plants back in 2011 has resulted in approximately 1100 extra deaths a year from inhalation of coal power emissions - which is certainly more deaths than resulted from Fukushima.