fredfertang
Well-known member
Wholeheartedly agree with all the condemnation of the perpetrators, but must confess To feeling of slight unease that all three suspects have been shot dead
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London Bridge and Borough Market attack
- Thread starter Pratters
- Start date
hendrix
Well-known member
They were wearing (fake) bomb vests, weren't they?
That's an easy decision.
Head shot.
fredfertang
Well-known member
Would a taser not have done the trick?
Must be some value in having the bastards alive and being able to 'interrogate' them
honestbharani
Well-known member
The ****ing cowards.. 
RIP to those whose lives had to end this way. And hope CWers and their near and dear there are doing ok. Its stupidly selfish to wish this but guess its the human thing to think of the people you might be connected to first, even through a slender thread such as CW.
RIP to those whose lives had to end this way. And hope CWers and their near and dear there are doing ok. Its stupidly selfish to wish this but guess its the human thing to think of the people you might be connected to first, even through a slender thread such as CW.
hendrix
Well-known member
Of course.
Definitely not. If you're making instantaneous or partially informed decisions at that stage, you're going for kill shots. At least, I would be.
Again, it took 8 minutes from the beginning of the attack before the armed responders were there.
fredfertang
Well-known member
Heard the full story now - yes, you're quite right - shoot to kill and ask questions afterwards
StephenZA
Well-known member
Apparently they also looked to be wearing fake bombing jackets... not going to give them a chance to show if it is real.
Overall the UK police are not the gun-ho style of the American police if they shoot to kill there is generally damn good reason. Also cause no matter the situation every shot fired will be fully investigated.
hendrix
Well-known member
The fake bomb vests is a stroke of evil genius really.
3 blokes wielding knives or machetes is pretty bloody scary, but there's a high likelihood that some particularly brave citizens might be able to foil the attack. You'd have to be another level of brave to confront someone wearing a bomb vest though.
3 blokes wielding knives or machetes is pretty bloody scary, but there's a high likelihood that some particularly brave citizens might be able to foil the attack. You'd have to be another level of brave to confront someone wearing a bomb vest though.
Kirkut
Well-known member
No use interrogating militants, our police interrogated Ajmal Kasab, but nothing of value came out of it.
StephenZA
Well-known member
As far as interrogations go these guys tend not to know anything substantial... these are generally a bunch of lone wolves causing havoc, maybe have met some low level lieutenant which the security forces probably know about. It is why it is almost impossible to foil an attack like this...
AndyZaltzHair
Well-known member
Terrible
vogue
Well-known member
have been checking that my friends who live in London are safe. And they are so thats good. And i hope anyone on CW is safe now. A couple of my close friends live close by to what happened but they were in last night so all good.
As to the rest of it. I never feel I can say anything that doesnt sound trite.London holds some very special memories for me. It feels so alien what is happening right now.
As to the rest of it. I never feel I can say anything that doesnt sound trite.London holds some very special memories for me. It feels so alien what is happening right now.
Top_Cat
Well-known member
Absolutely awful situation and a fairly brutal way to do it. Weird MO in some ways but I don't think fake bomb vests are new at all.
That said, the calculus changes a bit with the UK model of designated firearms officers because they likely go in with guns drawn rather than assess first. With your street cops being disarmed, these guys are brought in specifically to end a situation with firearms, the decision-making largely having been taken away from them. Still not quite 'shoot to kill' but closer than cops in other places where the gun is on your hip but not drawn. I'm not them and don't know their rules of engagement but I'd say if the have contact with a bad guy, the amount of activity they'd need to see before they start shooting ain't much because the act of calling them in is overt.
Cops don't generally get taught to 'shoot to kill', the logic used hasn't changed much over decades. That is, these bad actors are the reason the situation is how it is and it's the job of the officer to end the situation as quickly and efficiently as possible. This necessitates hitting the biggest target likely to neutralise the situation, i.e centre mass. If they live, that's preferable because now they can be tried but if they die, that's the problem of the crook.
That said, the calculus changes a bit with the UK model of designated firearms officers because they likely go in with guns drawn rather than assess first. With your street cops being disarmed, these guys are brought in specifically to end a situation with firearms, the decision-making largely having been taken away from them. Still not quite 'shoot to kill' but closer than cops in other places where the gun is on your hip but not drawn. I'm not them and don't know their rules of engagement but I'd say if the have contact with a bad guy, the amount of activity they'd need to see before they start shooting ain't much because the act of calling them in is overt.
StephenZA
Well-known member
Shoot to end the conflict as soon as possible would be the better desciption, however it is the assessment of the situation and who makes that decision which changes, ... when armed police are called in to a situation in the UK, it is because they believe the lives of public and police are in direct danger. If having assessed the situation those police believe that they need to shoot then they will. Armed police in the UK are more like SWAT (or special service training) in America, where they have had training to deal with extreme circumstances. One of the biggest reasons that the 'normal' police in America end up in trouble is they have actually not been trained sufficiently to handle situation and determine circumstances, but are taught to err on the side of protect yourself first... i.e. shoot first if you feel threatened. Often this saves police lives but also causes unnecessary deaths. NY police and some of the biggest cities are the contradictions to this, because like London police are highly trained individuals. But this is a whole other discussion....
flibbertyjibber
Well-known member
Yeah, and god forbid had it been 12 or 15 minutes.
wpdavid
Well-known member
And showing his class, as ever.Trump is tweeting about this now.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/04/trump-berates-london-mayor-sadiq-khan-terror-attacks
Ignorant scum, tbh