S Africa follow Mugabe

[Burgey]

One of those articles was written by Caroline Marcus. I might be mistaken here but I thought she used to edit the Sunday paper gossip columns before she somehow became a political commentator.

Everyone is entitled to their various view points, and if she wants to be a monstrous Tory lightweight that’s a matter for her. But it’s hard to take commentary seriously from people who look like they should, as Malcolm Tucker said, still be writing their name in alphabetti spaghetti.

I find this trend towards giving millenial commentators* some sort of equivalent gravitas to Laurie Oakes a ****ing weird phenomenon. Ffs that Caleb Bond bloke writes a political/ social column and there’s no way his balls have dropped yet, let alone has he had a root.





*usually YouTube mouth breather tbf.

 

[StephenZA]

As long as he is willing to take the refugees from Nyanga as well....
thesouthafrican_nyanga-highest-murder-rate-south-africa/

 

[brockley]

Denetalie from the Greens pitching for Batsmen,a return to white supremicist policy or white Australia policy.
Just a thousand farmers gee.
Labor is very quiet.

 

[watson]

It should be, but it seemingly isn't, as the tortured, bashed and murdered of one race seem to be getting preferential treatment by Dutton when compared with the tortured, bashed and murdered of another race.

More than 7000 people currently enter Australia each year under the ‘Special Humanitarian Programme ‘ which grants visas to persecuted people from all over the world. The settlement period under the programme is on average 12-18 months.

Until Dutton specifies otherwise I would expect that he will bring the farmers into Australia using the provision of the ‘Special Humanitarian Programme’ in the usual way and consequently not treat them that much different to everyone else.

However, even if Dutton does create some kind of ad hoc visa programme then so what? The reaction of the media to Dutton’s suggestion, and di-Natali especially, is disproportionate and over-the-top. So much so that they sound a bunch of ‘reverse-racists’ themselves because I really don’t buy their “it’s not fair” line for a second.

IMO Dutton has merely upset the hardcore ideologues who still wish that it was 2015 and that’s all there is to it.

 

[StephenZA]

More than 7000 people currently enter Australia each year under the ‘Special Humanitarian Programme ‘ which grants visas to persecuted people from all over the world. The settlement period under the programme is on average 12-18 months.

Until Dutton specifies otherwise I would expect that he will bring the farmers into Australia using the provision of the ‘Special Humanitarian Programme’ in the usual way and consequently not treat them that much different to everyone else.

However, even if Dutton does create some kind of ad hoc visa programme then so what? The reaction of the media to Dutton’s suggestion, and di-Natali especially, is disproportionate and over-the-top. So much so that they sound a bunch of ‘reverse-racists’ themselves because I really don’t buy their “it’s not fair” line for a second.

IMO Dutton has merely upset the hardcore ideologues who still wish that it was 2015 and that’s all there is to it.

How are the 'white' farmers in SA being persecuted?

 

[brockley]

Killed.
I dunno which weapons,but definitely murder.
Yes Stephen think your post should read,
How are the 'white' famers in SA being killed.

 

[StephenZA]

Killed.
I dunno which weapons,but definitely murder.
Yes Stephen think your post should read,
How are the 'white' famers in SA being killed.

Dead people don't need visas I believe.... and if we are talking people who have been attacked, there is a long list of those in SA. ... may just open a bit of a legal can of worms regarding persecution = attacked.

 

[brockley]

While its nice to talk about bodybags.
How bout you rouse on your government,for endorsing these thugs and tell them to do the right job and protect their people.
Or is that a racist thing to do that the police protect their farmers,on who's country they ride on the back of.

 

[StephenZA]

While its nice to talk about bodybags.
How bout you rouse on your government,for endorsing these thugs and tell them to do the right job and protect their people.
Or is that a racist thing to do that the police protect their farmers,on who's country they ride on the back of.

Who says they don't?.... Their is a crime issue in SA for all South Africans, and the poor policing affects all. We are not talking Zim here, where the government encouraged land invasions. That is not what is happening here.... the fact that people are disingenuously equating the two is the problem. Are the farm attacks an issue in SA, of course. So is the gangs in the Cape flats and the murders there. If you want to talk about the problems in SA in a meaningful way that would be great. Racist soundbite comments from an ocean away are not welcome.

 

[brockley]

Its pretty clear ANC is going the
Mugabie way.Now farmers.Then socialization of business to come.Same as Venrzuela,Zimbawe and Cuba.

 

[watson]

Who says they don't?.... Their is a crime issue in SA for all South Africans, and the poor policing affects all. We are not talking Zim here, where the government encouraged land invasions. That is not what is happening here.... the fact that people are disingenuously equating the two is the problem. Are the farm attacks an issue in SA, of course. So is the gangs in the Cape flats and the murders there. If you want to talk about the problems in SA in a meaningful way that would be great. Racist soundbite comments from an ocean away are not welcome.

For the most part South African farmers are an Ethnic minority and therefore vulnerable. At the very least they are a minority group of farmers within the larger South African population. This makes their problem unique.

So if a vulnerable minority group decides to conduct marches and formally complain that they are suffering then it is the duty of government to at least listen and then do something constructive if possible. That’s the whole point of having a government - to protect the weak and the vulnerable from forces and aggression beyond their control.

It’s really not good enough to say that all of society suffers from violence therefore we will not do anything about a specific group. America has a problem with School Shootings so something needs to be done. African Americans are being shot by the police so something needs to be done. Australia has a problem with Aboriginal Poverty so something needs to be done. Homosexual people suffer discrimination so something needs to be done, and so on.

Now it maybe that the Farmers have no compelling case and therefore the government has every right to disagree and refuse to get involved. But this needs to be properly and sympathetically articulated without the usual harping to race.

And yes Peter Dutton made a feckless speech, but by the same token no government should consider with-holding help to a minority group just because they happen to be of European origin. That would be racist.



(Anyway, I said more than enough in this thread so I’ll shut-up now)

 

[StephenZA]

Its pretty clear ANC is going the
Mugabie way.Now farmers.Then socialization of business to come.Same as Venrzuela,Zimbawe and Cuba.

Which just shows your ignorance...

For the most part South African farmers are an Ethnic minority and therefore vulnerable. At the very least they are a minority group of farmers within the larger South African population. This makes their problem unique.

So if a vulnerable minority group decides to conduct marches and formally complain that they are suffering then it is the duty of government to at least listen and then do something constructive if possible. That’s the whole point of having a government - to protect the weak and the vulnerable from forces and aggression beyond their control.

It’s really not good enough to say that all of society suffers from violence therefore we will not do anything about a specific group. America has a problem with School Shootings so something needs to be done. African Americans are being shot by the police so something needs to be done. Australia has a problem with Aboriginal Poverty so something needs to be done. Homosexual people suffer discrimination so something needs to be done, and so on.

Now it maybe that the Farmers have no compelling case and therefore the government has every right to disagree and refuse to get involved. But this needs to be properly and sympathetically articulated without the usual harping to race.

And yes Peter Dutton made a feckless speech, but by the same token no government should consider with-holding help to a minority group just because they happen to be of European origin. That would be racist.

(Anyway, I said more than enough in this thread so I’ll shut-up now)

But the government is not withholding help, and they are not ignoring the plight of the 'white' farmer, or any farmer many of which are also black rural farmers. These farmers have a very very loud voice within SA, particularly through afriforum, when you consider the many problems in SA and the fact that this minority gets a lot of media airtime and discussion in parliament, it is very much not being neglected. Could more be done, yes most definitely. But that is true for many of the problems within SA. And race is an issue in SA, it is simply a fact, but that is closely linked to the many educational problems and socio-economic problems in SA. People keep talking land invasions here, that has not and is not happening; honestly more of the very reverse has happened, and the law has dealt very harshly with squatting, ripping down people's homes and livelihoods when found to be illegal.

SA has gone through a tough time in the last 10 odd years under Zuma, and the systems of government and law have taken a hammering; but very importantly they have managed to withstand it (barely), now those systems need to be fixed and sorted. It will take time, it could still go wrong, but we are not Zim or most African countries or South America. SA has a very different dynamic and history to many of those places.

And I say all this as a white man who is very much being beset upon by the political forces within this country. But people making broad foolish statements showing their ignorance is not helpful. I have continued posting in this thread for one reason and one reason alone, I did not want the ignorance to be the dominating theme of this thread.

 

[StephenZA]

mid-morning-show-702/a-tale-of-two-white-contrasting-callers

It is very interesting to listen to these 2 very contrasting views of SA from people within SA.... and what is important is it is about perspective and knowledge more than anything else. This is not unique to SA but very much more easily observable in SA than other places in the world. It is about 13 min phone in talk show segment, but may be interesting to those who want a deeper understanding of SA 'white' people and culture and the very apparent differences, if you are going to listen please listen to it all because the first half is scary for me and the second half uplifting.


And another nice little, slightly sarcastic, article.

https://www.iol.co.za/saturday-star/opinion/perhaps-peterdutton-should-get-his-way-13871553

But nuance has never been the preserve of the South African debate - on any side - any more than letting the facts stand in the way of a good story has been the sole preserve of whisky sodden old hacks.
Cyril Ramaphosa’s election as ANC leader at Nasrec and then his deft unseating of Jacob Zuma last month has so unnerved the opposition that last weekend the DA appeared to resort by default to the age-old tactic of swart-gevaar, this time land expropriation, to get like-minded South Africans to register to vote in next year’s general elections.

To be fair, white South Africans have been under the cosh in recent months.

Zuma was playing the race card with such abandon in the lead up to his final days (and still is) - that it’s a wonder he didn’t pick up a repetitive stress injury.

The ANC policy that there should be land expropriation without compensation has also sent the twitterati and chattering classes into paroxysms of horror, nervously wondering if they shouldn’t pack for Perth.

The truth, as always, is slightly different. Ramaphosa has said there won’t be expropriation where it affects food security. By definition, that would exclude working, successful farms.

He’s also said that state-owned land, of which there are vast swathes, will be the first to be targeted for redistribution. All of this will only happen once the ANC has drawn up a proper policy document for implementation.

But, as always, this has been lost in translation - just like farm murders.

Farm murders are awful, bloody cruel, unspeakably terrifying. They deserve to be condemned in the strongest possible terms - just like all other violent crime, but statistically they do not constitute a special crime and they are certainly not a genocide.

As usual, though, there’s no debate, only knee-jerk rhetoric. The reality is that there should be parity in land redistribution, there should be restitution, there has to be.

It doesn't matter in Australia - there are now commentators there calling for a South African sports boycott over the land reform issue. Truly.

It’s like living in a parallel universe. The only good news, for me, has been the number of other white South Africans, on social media and real life, who aren’t like Harold. Who are appalled at how tone-deaf Dutton and his ilk are.

 

[Burgey]

Let’s be honest here. Has anyone ever met a happy farmer? They ****ing complain even more than cab drivers ffs.

Rains - too wet! Crops ruined!
Dry - drought! We’re rooned!
Mixture of above - surplus of food! Prices too low!

All with a hand out for a subsidy.

That’s the Australian experience anyway.

 

[SeamUp]

Ramaphosa wants to welcome back Malema (The leader of the anti-white group EFF who he left the ANC to create and is the one aggressively driving Land-reform)

Waldimar Pelser
@waldimar
Jacob Zuma would not have been heading to court if it weren't for the DA's relentless pursuit of his case. The benefits will accrue to all South Africans, bar perhaps one. #ZumaCharges

Athol Trollip #TrollipForChair
‏
Verified account
@AtholT
More Athol Trollip #TrollipForChair Retweeted Waldimar Pelser
Compare this consistent principled determinnation with the EFF Flip flopping on this issue. In fact if you research the EFF positions on issues of major national importance since their inception, you will see that “Flip flopping”is the only constant.

Julius Sello Malema
‏
Verified account
@Julius_S_Malema
Follow Follow @Julius_S_Malema
Hahaha, you are going white man. I’ve got no sympathy for whiteness, it feels so good for a black child to determine the future of the white one. #Kubo



Just to clear what Ramaphosa's role was in the early days of unification : He would go to SA's richest to get money from them to fund mansions for the big ANC group including Nelson Mandela and if not then life would be made difficult for them. They got money from the Rupert's, Oppenheimer's, Beck's, Searle's , Scott's.

Ramaphosa is not going to be any better. He was part of the ANC and has been for a long time and they all knew what was happening and nothing was done internally to sort the scandals of Zuma and others in depriving the poor of this country more opportunities.

 

[Prince EWS]

Verified account
@Julius_S_Malema
Follow Follow @Julius_S_Malema

I should have known sledger was behind all of this.

 

[StephenZA]

Ramaphosa is no innocent, nobody is saying he is, but he is a totally different person to Zuma and comes from a totally different section of the ANC. He is also the man who helped negotiate our constitution (which has withstood a huge assault) , he was a primary negotiator on the release of Mandela and the un-banning of the ANC and other movements. His importance can be seen after the assassination of Chris Hani, where behind the scenes he helped ensure that SA did not turn into a blood bath.

Malema is a terrible terrible person, but will also never rejoin the ANC because he would lose all power. His party (scarily) is king maker, Ramaphosa knows this and is playing politics to try nullify EFF and Malema. It is a gamble, nobody likes it and we would all prefer that it was not happening, but it is the nature of politics as seen throughout the world.

Put simply there is no other politician in the country that has a chance of correcting SA course but Ramaphosa. He is an astute, intelligent man who is born negotiator trying to reunify his party and the country. Ramaphosa (or anybody in the ANC) could do nothing about Zuma as long as he had the support of the majority of the party, Mandela, Ramaphosa Mbeki and many others knew exactly what Zuma was and tried to nullify him and even remove him but as soon as he won the 2007 ANC elective conference he was the man in power. It is an unfortunate reality of movements like the ANC coming into politics, their internal structures are more about the protection of the original movement than to govern correctly. Ramaphosa wants to do what's right for the country, much like Mandela and Mbeki tried to do but they are continuously fighting the ANC internal politics. Will he succeed ... we shall see, hopefully is about all you can say. I can promise this, if Zuma`s section had won the ANC conference then there would be no hope for SA, under Ramaphosa there is a chance.

Just as a side note, I do not trust the DA any more than the ANC at the moment, they have become a protest party. The authoritarian nature of their leadership is disappointing at best, Trollip in PE is a perfect example of this and has helped none of the DA`s causes by his self-aggrandized agenda and manner.

But trying to equate SA politics with Zim, or many other African nations, is foolish; it like much politics around the world is not a simple binary of good versus evil.

 

[StephenZA]

how-investigative-journalists-helped-turn-the-tide-against-corruption-in-south-africa
A simple article on how having a free press truly did help SA.... shows the importance of free press, which is not always observable for the more advanced democracies.

 

[Furball]

Let’s be honest here. Has anyone ever met a happy farmer? They ****ing complain even more than cab drivers ffs.

Rains - too wet! Crops ruined!
Dry - drought! We’re rooned!
Mixture of above - surplus of food! Prices too low!

All with a hand out for a subsidy.

That’s the Australian experience anyway.

It baffles me that in this day and age that people run a business whose output can be drastically altered by the weather and who take no steps to mitigate this.

 

[Daemon]

It baffles me that in this day and age that people run a business whose output can be drastically altered by the weather and who take no steps to mitigate this.

wut