Top Five Cricketers from each country

[h_hurricane]

Why, he was fat, past his prime and was only picked because England had no-one else. If you want to downgrade his achievements because of that, than so be it

Not really downgrading his achievements.He was colossal and an ATG, everyone agrees with it. All I am saying it, we cannot discount one part of his career just to equate his whole career with his peak. That will be unfair on allrounders who were consistent through their career. Pollock and Cairns(more than Kapil) get a very raw deal here.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Shakib must have played a few games against Zimbabwe and latter day Sri Lanka as well, a luxury which Botham didn't have. Still terrific numbers for both of them there.

Sri Lanka are not minnows and play spin better than most of the other nations. If anything shakib would have loved to pad his stats by feasting on SA and Australia more considering how they play spinners in Asia.

 

[MrPrez]

Not really downgrading his achievements.He was colossal and an ATG, everyone agrees with it. All I am saying it, we cannot discount one part of his career just to equate his whole career with his peak. That will be unfair on allrounders who were consistent through their career. Pollock and Cairns(more than Kapil) get a very raw deal here.

Except we're referring to almost all of his career, and simply excluding his last few matches where he was past his prime. That's different to cherry-picking a specific period - it's the majority of his career.

 

[MrPrez]

I agree with you to be honest - I think both have had their secondary skill over-rated.

Possibly, but if Kallis' bowling is overrated, then so is Sobers' - even more so.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Possibly, but if Kallis' bowling is overrated, then so is Sobers' - even more so.

Sobers had the workload of a genuine frontline bowler.

 

[Bolo]

Except we're referring to almost all of his career, and simply excluding his last few matches where he was past his prime. That's different to cherry-picking a specific period - it's the majority of his career.

Botham was arguably past his prime 1/4 of the way into his career. After this he slowly evolved from excellent to aweful. I dont really see the reason for excluding only the aweful. Either look at his peak (1/4 to 1/3) or look at his career.

Not really downgrading his achievements.He was colossal and an ATG, everyone agrees with it. All I am saying it, we cannot discount one part of his career just to equate his whole career with his peak. That will be unfair on allrounders who were consistent through their career. Pollock and Cairns(more than Kapil) get a very raw deal here.

Pollock was really good between finding his feet and when the injuries took too much of a toll. Some crazy averages, although they do flatter him heavily. Averaged over 50 with the bat in 3 consecutive calender years (botham didnt ever manage 50+ once) while going sub 22 with the ball. He was past his peak with injury halfway through this period though, although he hadn't yet turned into the ineffective bowler the second injury was responsible for.

Too short a peak, like botham. Him terrorising bats was such a joy to watch.

 

[smalishah84]

The one big difference between Botham and the other 80s all rounders was that they would actually play well against the WI. Arguably the greatest team ever to play the game. Botham would just **** all over himself facing them. And that is a really big mark against him.

 

[akilana]

Better? Or just an inverted version

I'd say Pollock as a bowler is equal to Kallis as a batsman in terms of how they're viewed, not in the top 10 of all time but certainly ATGs for their fields

And likewise Kallis' bowling was about as useful as Pollock's batting to the team. A fifth bowler and a number 7 bat share that usefulness right

In the last 30 years only Lara and Sachin were better batsman than Kallis.. I can think of at least 2 bowlers better than Pollock from SA alone. Pollock is generally underrated but to say he was equal to Kallis is wrong.
Pollock wasn’t no 7 batsman. The usefulness of 5th bowler and no 8 batsman aren’t the same. 5th bowler is more valuable to a team than no 8 batsman because of the injuries and workloads of main bowlers. Also in the beginning of career, Kallis used to bowl tons of overs per innings and had shown more ability with it than Pollock ever did with the bat. In the second half, he was mostly used when the opposition already settled down against Steyn/Philander/Morkel and had to compete for wickets with them.

Also, Kallis is highly rated by players. Just go through the Lord’s YouTube account players pick their XI and you’d see how many times he was picked in it by current and former players and how highly they rate him.
Mike Hussey said in an interview that Australian team often had an argument about Kallis if he was the greatest all rounder ever and more than half of his team mates agreed he was.

 

[akilana]

Sobers had the workload of a genuine frontline bowler.

That’s true but different eras

Interesting to see Kallis in his career bowled more overs than Wasim and Steyn for example. He also played over 250 ODIs. There won’t be another like him.. if he was an English or Australian player, there would be more hype.

 

[Malcolm]

In the last 30 years only Lara and Sachin were better batsman than Kallis.

Sachin
Lara Ponting
Sangakkara
Waugh
Kallis

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Sachin
Lara Ponting
Sangakkara
Waugh
Kallis

Smith

Similar to Pollock's position among ATG Pacers, behind Akram , McGrath , Steyn , Donald , Ambrose and Waqar

 

[Malcolm]

Smith

Not yet.

 

[Malcolm]

Smith is an ATG batsman but his career is too short compared to Kallis.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Ian Botham
1st 7yrs
63 tests 3548 runs 36.57 AVG
277 wkts at 24.82

Last 7 yrs
39 tests 1652 runs 28.48 AVG
106 wkts at 37.75

Kapil Dev

First 7 yrs
66 tests 2644 runs 29.7 AVG
252 wkts at 28.39

Next 7 yrs
46 tests 1981 runs 32.47 AVG
133 wkts at 32.51

And he played 3 more years

Kapil played for a weaker team in unfavorable conditions with no support.
Kapil's job was tougher.
For example , India's England tour 1982
Botham scored 403 runs at 134.33 and took 9 wickets at 35.56
Kapil scored 292 runs at 73 and took 10 wickets at 43.90
Kapil won Man of the series.

Against best team of the era

Kapil 25 tests 1079 runs at 30.83
89 wickets at 24.9 ( including a 90 plus ball 100 against 4 ATG bowling attack )

Botham 20 tests 792 runs at 21.41
61 wkts at 35.18

Also Kapil was more consistent and played longer .

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Lara
Sachin
Ponting
Sanga
Waugh
Kallis
Dravid
Smith
Flower
Kohli

Top 10 last 30 yrs

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Kapil Last 3 years

19 tests 623 runs at 32.78
49 wickets at 28.32

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Excluding India / England

Botham 88 tests
3999 runs at 28.97
324 wickets at 28.76

Kapil 103 tests
3862 runs at 28.73
349 wickets at 27.77

 

[aussie tragic]

Speaking of Botham's peak, in his first 25 tests he had 1336 runs @ 40.48 and 139 wkts @ 18.52.

Has anyone else even come close to having a batting average more than double his bowling average?

 

[Red Hill]

Because peak Ponting was something else and be played twice as many matches، didn't pick and choose his tours and dominates at 3 like no one else.

Peak any elite player was "something else"

 

[Red Hill]

Was a one man army that series. Was probably MOTS, but Flintoff deserved it for his clutch performances.

My thoughts on this have been mentioned before, but anyone who wants to denigrate Warne as a cricketer needs to get a hold of the 2005 Ashes series on video and watch just how great he was. The guy was a force, almost supernatural in his will to win games for Australia (with the ball and bat). And I'm not even being hyperbolic there. He was really THAT good.