The British Politics Thread

[Scaly piscine]

Whilst I disagree with a lot of what Labour has done, their investment and commitment towards eliminating third world debt is commendable. They have done more than any previous government concerning this issue, and I hope that future governments can continue their work.

You musn't forget that Labour also reduced homelessness and unemployment, whilst also introducing a minimum wage. Whilst their educational and health service reforms are questionable, I don't think they are as bad as being made out by many media outlets, and I doubt if the Tories would have done much better.

Yea, as an ex-student who has been slapped with 12 grand worth of student loan I'll have to repay I really appreciate their work with third world debt. Then there's the way the private student loan companies harass registered mentally ill, disabled people like my sister and threaten to take them to court. But then the sick and needy in this country are a very long way down the list when it comes to this Labour government, except for when they're a statistic like the homeless (I'm very skeptical of any figures this lot throws up anyway).

As for unemploment figures, I'd wager most of this is down to the way full time jobs become two or three part time jobs. The companies like it because part time workers have crap all rights, the governments like it because it helps their statistics. Some more of the unemployed have simply been moved onto the sick where as far as I'm aware they get exactly the same money as they do if they were seeking employment.

As for all the reforms, Labour likes to make it look like they're actually doing something. Of course all they've managed to do is piss everyone involved off for no benefit whatsoever - in fact things get worse because of the unfamiliarity of the new systems, guidelines etc.

 

[gio]

Yea, as an ex-student who has been slapped with 12 grand worth of student loan I'll have to repay I really appreciate their work with third world debt. Then there's the way the private student loan companies harass registered mentally ill, disabled people like my sister and threaten to take them to court. But then the sick and needy in this country are a very long way down the list when it comes to this Labour government, except for when they're a statistic like the homeless (I'm very skeptical of any figures this lot throws up anyway).

I'm sorry to hear about your sister being harassed. But I fail to see how the labour government were responsible for it.

As for unemploment figures, I'd wager most of this is down to the way full time jobs become two or three part time jobs. The companies like it because part time workers have crap all rights, the governments like it because it helps their statistics. Some more of the unemployed have simply been moved onto the sick where as far as I'm aware they get exactly the same money as they do if they were seeking employment.

Surely any employment is better than unemployment, part time or otherwise. You are learning skills and learning about the working environment. You have the chance of promotion through the business and the chance to go full time. Also, as far as I'm aware, employment benefit currently stands around £40 a week. That equates to under 8 hours work on the minimum wage. I'd be surpised if there are many jobs that employ staff to work less than 8 hours.

I'm sorry to say I'm not aware of the inferior rights part time workers have over full time workers, so I can't comment on that issue.

As for all the reforms, Labour likes to make it look like they're actually doing something. Of course all they've managed to do is piss everyone involved off for no benefit whatsoever - in fact things get worse because of the unfamiliarity of the new systems, guidelines etc.

I don't know the ins and outs of the NHS and education reforms so I'm not in a position to give a confident opinion. What I will say is that foundation hospitals are a mistake and I hope Labour realises this soon. Also, the new application system regarding doctors has obviously been implemented very poorly and rightly, heads have rolled.

 

[Scaly piscine]

I'm sorry to hear about your sister being harassed. But I fail to see how the labour government were responsible for it.

It is they who made the decision to leave some student loans in the hands of unscrupulous private companies.

Surely any employment is better than unemployment, part time or otherwise. You are learning skills and learning about the working environment. You have the chance of promotion through the business and the chance to go full time. Also, as far as I'm aware, employment benefit currently stands around £40 a week. That equates to under 8 hours work on the minimum wage. I'd be surpised if there are many jobs that employ staff to work less than 8 hours.

I don't see how it is better to split full time jobs into multiple part time jobs. Particularly when you see people end up having to take multiple part time jobs anyway. There needs to be a balance between part time and full time jobs.

 

[cpr]

The unemployment figures are a fun statistic calulated by an office junior mashing a calculator.

Best thing to do with the student loan company is enter your details wrong. They then cant match your details to a NI number... will still pay into your bank account untill its sorted though. Never chased me up for £4,000 after they cocked up by date of birth one year, do still chase up the other £3,000 though.

 

[BoyBrumby]

As for unemploment figures, I'd wager most of this is down to the way full time jobs become two or three part time jobs. The companies like it because part time workers have crap all rights, the governments like it because it helps their statistics. Some more of the unemployed have simply been moved onto the sick where as far as I'm aware they get exactly the same money as they do if they were seeking employment.

I've no love for the current government, but strictly speaking anyone who's job is less than 16 hours per week is still technically unemployed, so splitting full time jobs up wouldn't have any affect on the figures.

& the exact reverse is true about people being moved onto sickness benefits. In fact one of our big current directives is to make more of the long-term "sick" become what the government calls "economically active" (working or claiming a benefit that suggests they're ready to take a job).

The reason why we have low unemployment figures is that there's loads of jobs to be had. The UK has successfully absorbed X-hundred thousand citizens of the former Eastern bloc (officially 400,000, realistically three times that) who have all come here to work. If we didn't have the jobs they wouldn't come. Whether the government can take credit for this is another issue.

 

[vic_orthdox]

I've no love for the current government, but strictly speaking anyone who's job is less than 16 hours per week is still technically unemployed, so splitting full time jobs up wouldn't have any affect on the figures.

Haha, and to think in Australia they treat anyone who has done one hour of work in the past week as "employed".

 

[Scaly piscine]

I've no love for the current government, but strictly speaking anyone who's job is less than 16 hours per week is still technically unemployed, so splitting full time jobs up wouldn't have any affect on the figures.

& the exact reverse is true about people being moved onto sickness benefits. In fact one of our big current directives is to make more of the long-term "sick" become what the government calls "economically active" (working or claiming a benefit that suggests they're ready to take a job).

The reason why we have low unemployment figures is that there's loads of jobs to be had. The UK has successfully absorbed X-hundred thousand citizens of the former Eastern bloc (officially 400,000, realistically three times that) who have all come here to work. If we didn't have the jobs they wouldn't come. Whether the government can take credit for this is another issue.

A lot of part time jobs are 16 hours are longer, so splitting them will have an affect on figures.

As for the directive... where was it in the past 10 years? What will probably happen is they'll shove people who're unfit for work off benefits and leave the conmen alone, but we'll wait and see what comes of it - whether it's just hot air or whatever.

As for all the Eastern bloc coming in... they're taking jobs OFF the natives because they're cheaper, Polish builders anyone? They come over here because the money is still better than back home.

 

[steds]

As for all the Eastern bloc coming in... they're taking jobs OFF the natives because they're cheaper, Polish builders anyone?

How many people do you know personally who can't get a job for all the immigrants?

 

[BoyBrumby]

A lot of part time jobs are 16 hours are longer, so splitting them will have an affect on figures.

As for the directive... where was it in the past 10 years? What will probably happen is they'll shove people who're unfit for work off benefits and leave the conmen alone, but we'll wait and see what comes of it - whether it's just hot air or whatever.

A lot of it is bull****, frankly, but the govt likes to be seen to be doing something. Simplest way to reduce sickness benefit is don't pay it for bad backs or "stress": bang - 85% gone at one stroke.

The trouble is that that would punish the genuine sufferers of those conditions, so the department favours a softly-softly approach.

As for all the Eastern bloc coming in... they're taking jobs OFF the natives because they're cheaper, Polish builders anyone? They come over here because the money is still better than back home.

There's some truth in that; immigrants are pricing the native unskilled working-class out of the market to some extent. However what is also true is that they're prepared to do jobs that the natives won't. Round here we have literally thousands of seasonal agricultural jobs: picking & packing crops, essentially. It's **** pay & bloody hard work so the local unemployed (largely feckless ****s it must be said) won't touch the jobs. Poles, Lithunanians & Latvians lap them up.

 

[cpr]

As for all the Eastern bloc coming in... they're taking jobs OFF the natives because they're cheaper, Polish builders anyone? They come over here because the money is still better than back home.

Actually there not cheaper, they get payed the same minimum wage as everyone else. Just there more willing to work at that level. We use a Polish builder for a lot of our maintenance work, as he's fair priced and will do the job a damn site quicker than many local builders (and that includes my uncles!). His invoices make it all the worth while though, as although his spoken English is perfect, his spelling isnt, so a 'Window leaking in the porch' becomes 'Window licking in the porshe'

Theres a lot of immigration into this country because A) we have a damn good minimum wage and B) theres alot of work available for those willing. Anyone claiming they cant geta job due to foreigners can just get out of the country IMO. Not looking hard enough (i've not had a permanent job for over a year, spent all my time temping, never gone a week without a position, as theres always jobs for those who are reliable and work hard)

Flipside of this though, although they arnt taking anyones jobs, they are having an effect on housing. Councils will house 'homeless' immigrants as a priority, which means brits needing the houses lose out. (girlfriends mums in that position, She has 3 children, in a 2 bedroom house, been told its a 5 year wait for a bigger house if she's lucky, as she's not a priority case). Couple this with the whole 'Right to Buy' means that the number of council properties has rapidly dimished, whilst the demand has grown. (i do agree with Right to buy, just think the council should put that money straight back into building/purchasing more houses to replace)

 

[Langeveldt]

I think us saffies have it sorted.. If you aren't a citizen, you are not able to get a job unless the firm can prove that a South African cannot fill that position.. Don't have any complaints with the system which seems a lot fairer than the 'anything goes' open door policy in the UK..

What I don't understand about British Politics, is there is a Prime Minister who has been voted for by about 22,000 people in East Scotland... Brown hasn't won a general election, but he runs the country?!

 

[Neil Pickup]

I think us saffies have it sorted.. If you aren't a citizen, you are not able to get a job unless the firm can prove that a South African cannot fill that position.. Don't have any complaints with the system which seems a lot fairer than the 'anything goes' open door policy in the UK..

What I don't understand about British Politics, is there is a Prime Minister who has been voted for by about 22,000 people in East Scotland... Brown hasn't won a general election, but he runs the country?!

Blair never won a general election either. The Labour Party won three. You vote for a member of a party, not a person.

 

[gio]

As for all the Eastern bloc coming in... they're taking jobs OFF the natives because they're cheaper, Polish builders anyone? They come over here because the money is still better than back home.

Aside from the fact that the comment is verging on racism, Britain needs immigration because, as far as I'm aware, we still have a declining population. Also, as someone else has pointed out, immigrants have a far better attitude towards work than a lot of native Britons.

As far as the housing situation goes, I can't really comment on it as I don't know enough about it. However, I would say that an immigrant/asylum seeker would find it harder to find accomodation outwith the council than a native Brit. Surely it's more important to house the homeless, Brit or otherwise, than move a family who already are in a house to a larger home. Not that I want to comment on your own personal situation, cpr, as I obviously know nothing of the circumstances.

 

[Langeveldt]

Blair never won a general election either. The Labour Party won three. You vote for a member of a party, not a person.

The vast majority of people nowadays vote for the personality who heads the party.. I know you are right strictly speaking, but it seems a bit of a farce that the leader can change without anyone voting for him..

 

[Langeveldt]

Aside from the fact that the comment is verging on racism, Britain needs immigration because, as far as I'm aware, we still have a declining population. Also, as someone else has pointed out, immigrants have a far better attitude towards work than a lot of native Britons.

As far as the housing situation goes, I can't really comment on it as I don't know enough about it. However, I would say that an immigrant/asylum seeker would find it harder to find accomodation outwith the council than a native Brit. Surely it's more important to house the homeless, Brit or otherwise, than move a family who already are in a house to a larger home. Not that I want to comment on your own personal situation, cpr, as I obviously know nothing of the circumstances.

The fact that they need to build however many million more houses on flood plains, and that the average price of a house will soon be 300,000 pounds, suggests to me that there is a real shortage..

 

[cpr]

Fair enough i understand that those without a home need one more than those cramped into one too small. But the councils have sold of a huge number of properties under the right to buy, then not used that money to reinvest in other houses means that theres not enough for everyone to be housed comfortably.

Also a 1 child foreign family will be given a 4 bed house if free, but the 3 child family will be told to stay in a 2 bed. Now you can see a common sense answer here cant you? You cant? which council is it you work for again?

 

[Scaly piscine]

Aside from the fact that the comment is verging on racism, Britain needs immigration because, as far as I'm aware, we still have a declining population. Also, as someone else has pointed out, immigrants have a far better attitude towards work than a lot of native Britons.

Who's verging on racism? So all immigrants have at least a decent attitude towards work now do they?

I'd love to know where this myth about needing immigration based on a declining population comes from. A declining population would be a very good thing in Britain (as long the population declined from the right geographical places). An aging population is different, but then we'll be all stuck with working til 70 before long anyway. You might need immigration because of a skill shortage, but you don't need it to ensure this island is even more overpopulated.

 

[GIMH]

Actually there not cheaper, they get payed the same minimum wage as everyone else. Just there more willing to work at that level. We use a Polish builder for a lot of our maintenance work, as he's fair priced and will do the job a damn site quicker than many local builders (and that includes my uncles!). His invoices make it all the worth while though, as although his spoken English is perfect, his spelling isnt, so a 'Window leaking in the porch' becomes 'Window licking in the porshe'

Theres a lot of immigration into this country because A) we have a damn good minimum wage and B) theres alot of work available for those willing. Anyone claiming they cant geta job due to foreigners can just get out of the country IMO. Not looking hard enough (i've not had a permanent job for over a year, spent all my time temping, never gone a week without a position, as theres always jobs for those who are reliable and work hard)

Flipside of this though, although they arnt taking anyones jobs, they are having an effect on housing. Councils will house 'homeless' immigrants as a priority, which means brits needing the houses lose out. (girlfriends mums in that position, She has 3 children, in a 2 bedroom house, been told its a 5 year wait for a bigger house if she's lucky, as she's not a priority case). Couple this with the whole 'Right to Buy' means that the number of council properties has rapidly dimished, whilst the demand has grown. (i do agree with Right to buy, just think the council should put that money straight back into building/purchasing more houses to replace)

Yeah, ended up breaking a few banks to buy a house because we couldn't get a council house last year; missus was pregnant with twins and we already had a three-year old, lived two flights of stairs up (and above absolute scumbags to put the icing on the cake) but they weren't interested because I had a job paying a long way below the national average. ****ers.

 

[PhoenixFire]

Basically the massive rise in share-prices and the general rise in our economy, can be put mainly down to immigration imo.

If they are willing to work, and not scrounge off the state, then I can't see any problem with having them in the country.

 

[Scaly piscine]

Basically the massive rise in share-prices and the general rise in our economy, can be put mainly down to immigration imo.

If they are willing to work, and not scrounge off the state, then I can't see any problem with having them in the country.

The FTSE 100 at the end of 1999/start 2000 was nearly at 7000, it crashed down to over half that in early 2003. So does that mean there were no immigrants in 2003 then and we were overrun in 1999/2000? I would say the general rise in our economy is because it's stable because most of the countries, markets that influence us are also stable and all the foundations for a good, stable economy were built from the late 1970s onwards.