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Feminism thread

ankitj

Well-known member
While I quoted the most eye opening (according to me) part of the article, full article is a very nuanced take on what can help achieve the current movement a lasting impact on workplace harassment and what can derail it. It draws parallels with other social reform movements of past too. Very good read.
 
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ankitj

Well-known member
On Feminism and more:

Fathom ? Feminism in Israel | Authoritarian governance and Islamist ideology versus women?s rights: an interview with Elham Manea

AJ: And the main findings?

EM: The moment the state starts to situate rights within a group frame rather than an individual frame the outcome will likely be segregation, inequality and discrimination. The weakest will be left vulnerable, subject to abuse and discrimination. This is the main consequence of legal pluralism, whether weak or strong.

A key consequence of introducing weak legal pluralism and with it Islamic law in Western legal systems will be a stratified citizenry, involving two types of women: Western women who can enjoy their rights based on the state’s laws, and migrant women who cannot. The system in the UK has in effect created these two types of citizens; one enjoys equality before the law and the other does not because of their religious identity. These women suffer from the double discrimination syndrome: in addition to gender discrimination they are also denied access to their legal rights. Indeed, this stratification will only further cement the walls around the closed parallel societies existing in the UK.

In addition, the system is, de facto, legitimising polygamous marriages, and facilitating child marriage and forced marriage – all related to the type of Islamic jurisprudence implemented in the UK.

Most significantly for the cohesion and unity of society and the fight against extremism, soft legal pluralism has continued to separate minority groups from the wider society and has given Islamists a free hand in reinforcing their social control over closed communities. The issue is not only the use being made of the law by conservative clerics and imams. Islamists often control British sharia councils, and those working in the sharia councils often display the ideological and political features of Islamism.

AJ: You trace the roots of the support offered by some western liberals to the introduction of Sharia to what you call ‘the essentialist paradigm’. Can you explain what the central features of this paradigm are?

EM: The essentialist paradigm is characteristic of Western academic post-colonial and post-modern discourse and has dominated it for far too long. It treats people as belonging to homogeneous groups, essentialising their cultures and religions. It underestimates its own deleterious impact, as an academic and political discourse, on human rights. It discards the voices of people who it deems as being ‘not authentic’ representatives of a culture conceived as singular and unchanging.

Four features characterise the essentialist paradigm:

  1. It combines multiculturalism as a political process with a policy of soft legal pluralism, dividing people along into cultural, religious and ethnic silos, treating individuals differently on account of their ‘cultural differences,’ in the process setting them apart and placing them in parallel legal enclaves.
  2. It perceives rights from the perspective of the group: the group has rights, not the individuals within it. It insists that each group has a collective identity and culture, an essential identity and culture, which should be protected and perpetuated even if doing so violates the rights of individuals within the group.
  3. It is dominated by a cultural relativist approach to rights (in both its forms, as strong and soft cultural relativism), and believes that rights and other social practices, values and moral norms are culturally determined.
  4. It is haunted by the white man’s/woman’s burden caused by a strong sense of shame and guilt over the Western colonial and imperial past and a paternalistic desire to protect minorities or people from former colonies.
 

ankitj

Well-known member
UK has done some massive study on gender pay gap. What do you guys think it shows? From what I have read it really doesn't show that discrimination is the cause of pay gap. Lazy to write more but what do others think?
 

smalishah84

The Tiger King
UK has done some massive study on gender pay gap. What do you guys think it shows? From what I have read it really doesn't show that discrimination is the cause of pay gap. Lazy to write more but what do others think?
Can you please post a link?
 

straw man

Well-known member
It's a good article, as is usual from the Economist, and has plenty of discussion and nuance. It certainly does not suggest that there's 'nothing to see here' as many seem to be trying to push - instead it's a constructive article about what the numbers can tell us, what they can't tell us, how introspection can be beneficial, what actions might be worthwhile and what might be counterproductive.
Two narratives have emerged. The first is that the gaps prove how sexist and discriminatory the workplace still is. The second is that they are adequately explained by men’s greater share of senior jobs, and have nothing to do with discrimination. Neither is quite right.
 

ankitj

Well-known member
Yeah definitely not "nothing to see here" scenario. But certainly think the vocal feminists taking away all the wrong conclusions from it i.e. equal opportunity vs. equal outcome thing. Guess support during maternity and making it easy for women to network are couple of things to be done by companies better.

Edit: many of the articles on Economist are very shallow. I'm able to tell that for articles on India which makes me suspect their quality for articles on other regions. But on gender they have been very very balanced and nuanced.
 
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Uppercut

Well-known member
I think the resulting debate has been pretty ****. Like the focus on one (bad) metric has got people pinning an entrenched, complex sociological gender issue entirely at the feet of interview panels.
 

Ikki

Well-known member
UK has done some massive study on gender pay gap. What do you guys think it shows? From what I have read it really doesn't show that discrimination is the cause of pay gap. Lazy to write more but what do others think?
Not only do these studies tend to explain the discrepancy mainly due to other factors, they've often shown bias in favour of women :laugh:

Discrimination is part of the pay gap - undoubtedly, there are some sexist people in high positions - but they are so few and far inbetween that to pin that as the driving narrative of this debate (as it pertains to the 'West') is farcical, dishonest and wrong. It was one of Obama's worst positions and turned a lot of people off, including women.
 
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ankitj

Well-known member
This is some ****ed up ****.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-45108272

[SUB]
An internal investigation found that Tokyo Medical University (TMU) had been manipulating the scores of female applicants from as early as 2006.It also marked down the scores of male applicants who had taken the entrance test at least four times.

TMU has said the alterations should never have happened.

The university also admitted to adding extra points to the scores of 19 students who had made donations to the school.

"We betrayed the public trust. We want to sincerely apologise for this," TMU managing director Tetsuo Yukioka told reporters at a press conference on Tuesday.
[/SUB]
 
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Burgey

Well-known member
Haven't read the whole article, but way to completely **** up any academic credibility the uni may have. Is there some suggestion they stood to profit by having an increased number of female students from some govt program?
 

vcs

Well-known member
In India, they openly accept donations for admitting students to medical and engg. colleges (private colleges). There's no pretense of academic credibility at all. :)
 

Burgey

Well-known member
There's a line available about those doctors driving cabs in Sydney, but I won't go there.

Is there no regulation or oversight of academia in India (or Japan for that matter, based on the above article)?
 

vcs

Well-known member
Seems sort of fair to mark down the scores of people who are retaking the exam for a fourth time though. But to do it only for males is weird.
 
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