Feminism thread

[OverratedSanity]

Well, I don't know how #MeToo happened in west, but lot of stories being outed in India are just creepy persuasion and in some cases post-breakup clingy-ness. I am sure people involved felt traumatized but is that the point of this movement?

But of course some serious harassment has surfaced too. Latest being the "sanskari" old man of Bollywood, Alok Nath who basically committed rape according the accuser!

Most of it is complete rubbish. "Harrasssment" has become an enormous umbrella according to these morons.

 

[harsh.ag]

It's high time all the women came out with their stories. India has a massive problem with consent in general (esp repeated consent), harassment at the workplace, and, of course, the powerlessness of poor women. The fear of social media justice is the very least that this culture requires.

 

[vcs]

Yeah, I don't get it. It's not like many of the cases coming to light are legally actionable. There's just some social shaming, and a few reputations at stake. Some women have basically broken the unsaid social contract of confidentiality in romantic interactions because they felt like they were treated badly. If you take advantage of said reputation to behave like a **** in your personal relationships, and your behavior gets brought to light later on, and it affects your career, I don't see it as unfair. Random creepy blokes who aren't famous are hardly going to be affected by any of this. It just makes society as a whole a bit more aware of consent and boundaries of acceptable behavior, so that's fine.

 

[harsh.ag]

It's such a systemic problem though. How men and women are brought up. How they are segregated from childhood. How Indian parents react to their daughters facing harassment or inappropriate behavior by clipping their wings, thus starting the whole cycle of "don't tell". Boys being treated like spoiled princes with the entitlements. *** being such a taboo and dating made impossible until people are in college. Just pushes the age of maturity further and further away. And of course results in many people never maturing. Never losing their sense of entitlement. Never getting out of the cycle of fear and "don't tell". Being poor compounds all of this multiple folds.

Gotta start at the household level. Gotta start with the parents.

 

[OverratedSanity]

When you use Twitter to compile real stories of harassment but also shoddily throw in "horror stories" of bad dates it really bugs me. And I don't think social shaming for the sake of some ambiguous concept of doing something for the greater good of the feminist movement is in any way helpful.

 

[harsh.ag]

There are plenty of full on harassment cases though. A lot of stories are just about inappropriate behaviour and language, yeah. Bosses shouldn't be hitting on their subordinates, of course.

 

[harsh.ag]

When you use Twitter to compile real stories of harassment but also shoddily throw in "horror stories" of bad dates it really bugs me. And I don't think social shaming for the sake of some ambiguous concept of doing something for the greater good of the feminist movement is in any way helpful.

Social shaming is helpful because it is a way of imposing costs on such behaviour. Costs which are completely missing right now in the country. Ideally it should be penal and economic costs sanctioned by a legal system. But that's going to take a long time and a massive shift in everyday culture.

 

[vcs]

The Chetan Bhagat case is not remotely sexual harassment, or even particularly creepy IMO, just a married man trying to see whether he could flirt a bit with someone he found attractive and get away with it. I don't see it affecting his career, but he'll find it hard to square it with his wife.

 

[trundler]

I think part of the problem is that people at a subconscious level still think casual *** is a bad thing. Creepy flirting isn't harassment. Regretting doing something afterwards doesn't make it harassment either.

Obviously just referring to cases like Chetan Bhagat. We (India and Pakistan collectively) have a large scale problem with consent for sure and I hope people realise this somehow. Victim silencing so common here. We definitely need something to highlight these societal problems, even if such a movement has its issues.

 

[sledger]

I think part of the problem is that people at a subconscious level still think casual *** is a bad thing. Creepy flirting isn't harassment. Regretting doing something afterwards doesn't make it harassment either.

Obviously just referring to cases like Chetan Bhagat. We (India and Pakistan collectively) have a large scale problem with consent for sure and I hope people realise this somehow. Victim silencing so common here. We definitely need something to highlight these societal problems, even if such a movement has its issues.

Could be. In the UK anyway, legally speaking.

This is obviously outside the scope/context of the present discussion, but in the UK the law treats harassment as something that is experienced by the victim rather than done by the offender.

Generally speaking anyway. There are some nuances to this general position.

 

[hendrix]

I think part of the problem is that people at a subconscious level still think casual *** is a bad thing. Creepy flirting isn't harassment. Regretting doing something afterwards doesn't make it harassment either.

Obviously just referring to cases like Chetan Bhagat. We (India and Pakistan collectively) have a large scale problem with consent for sure and I hope people realise this somehow. Victim silencing so common here. We definitely need something to highlight these societal problems, even if such a movement has its issues.

Yeah exactly.

I keep thinking of the Bangladeshi cricket player who had rape charges laid against him because he pulled out of an engagement.

Like, that's just a fundamental misunderstanding of what consent means, and actually does way more harm for women because it presupposes that they can never actually have *** because they simply want to have ***. And yet it's so enshrined culturally that it's law in that part of the world. Bangladesh is not India, obviously.

 

[ankitj]

I support social shaming. I also think the boundaries must be much stricter at workplace. Even a compliment on appearance by a man in position of power to a woman must be seen as harassment (as it is in most corporate offices). But what do you make of case like Gursimran Khamba's?

Also, one gets the impression that Bollywood is one nasty place. Don't know if they treat film sets as workplace at all; they should and have similar level of protection against "casual" harassment that you would have in decent corporate offices.

 

[ankitj]

Yeah exactly.

I keep thinking of the Bangladeshi cricket player who had rape charges laid against him because he pulled out of an engagement.

Like, that's just a fundamental misunderstanding of what consent means, and actually does way more harm for women because it presupposes that they can never actually have *** because they simply want to have ***. And yet it's so enshrined culturally that it's law in that part of the world. Bangladesh is not India, obviously.

Or it is to a great extent. We have a law where *** on "false promise" of marriage can be considered rape. Although the judges are more liberal in interpreting and applying it when cases do come up to them.

 

[hendrix]

Or it is to a great extent. We have a law where *** on "false promise" of marriage can be considered rape. Although the judges are more liberal in interpreting and applying it when cases do come up to them.

Right, so same thing. That type of law simply has to be removed.

 

[ankitj]

Now woman on woman harassment accusation: https://twitter.com/kaneezsurka/status/1050000796560056320

Aditi Mittal, the accused, is in fact a bit of a radical on this issue i.e. doesn't accept that a bad date is not harassment. And she retweeted this tweet. WTF.

 

[harsh.ag]

Or it is to a great extent. We have a law where *** on "false promise" of marriage can be considered rape. Although the judges are more liberal in interpreting and applying it when cases do come up to them.

Right, so same thing. That type of law simply has to be removed.

Yeah, that should not be considered rape and the law needs to go. However, it should definitely be open to civil claims under willful fraud or something since everyone knows that, in the subcontinent, it's a big deal culturally speaking and the woman involved can incur a high cost.

 

[Bijed]

Should women be spelt womxn?

 

[trundler]

I've always thought person could be more gender neutral and be spelled perchild geddit

 

[SillyCowCorner1]

A lady under the sheets and a freak in the streets

 

[hendrix]

Yeah, that should not be considered rape and the law needs to go. However, it should definitely be open to civil claims under willful fraud or something since everyone knows that, in the subcontinent, it's a big deal culturally speaking and the woman involved can incur a high cost.

I disagree.

I mean obviously I agree that women can incur a high cost of a failed engagement and bear the brunt of the smearing that happens afterwards. That has to change in and of itself. But if you continue the precedent of court cases for broken engagements you're introducing a legal/financial coercion on someone to get married, which is insane.