Imagine...

[Daemon]

I don't think it'll be classified as rape here either actually.

 

[trundler]

What criminal offence would that be?

 

[sledger]

There are various offences listed under the Offences Against the Person Act which deliberately/recklessly passing on an STD to another person could come under. The most commonly invoked is causing/inflicting Grievous Bodily Harm I think.

Though I swear there is a specific offence somewhere which deals with deliberately passing on HIV.

 

[Daemon]

Your posts are punishable under the Offences Against the Person Act

 

[Daemon]

So’s your face

 

[sledger]

gagfc

 

[Burgey]

I’m interested in the idea of retrospectively withdrawing consent owing to a misrepresentation, and that being categorised as a form of rape.

Having thought more about it, I can see how it could be a category of sexual assault because the consent has been procured through dissent, but it should be at the lower end of the spectrum compared with what we usually think of as a violent rape.

Then again, I’m a bloke so it’s easy for me to be a bit blasè about what is or isn’t a violation of a woman’s body.

 

[sledger]

I’m interested in the idea of retrospectively withdrawing consent owing to a misrepresentation, and that being categorised as a form of rape.

Having thought more about it, I can see how it could be a category of sexual assault because the consent has been procured through dissent, but it should be at the lower end of the spectrum compared with what we usually think of as a violent rape.

Then again, I’m a bloke so it’s easy for me to be a bit blasè about what is or isn’t a violation of a woman’s body.

One quite eye opening thing that occurs when teaching this stuff is the surprise and confusion shown by a lot of students (mostly male tbh) when you explain to them that rape does not necessarily have to be (though obviously it can be) a violent and aggressive act. It can be a much more understated, subtle, and altogether non-violent.

Seems to suggest to me that many people tend to think submission = consent, and this is plainly wrong. Obviously this is entirely anecdotal based on my experience with a couple of classes of people. But still, it's a troubling view, and I wonder how widely it might be held.

 

[Magrat Garlick]

But still, it's a troubling view, and I wonder how widely it might be held.

it's something that has been studied quite extensively in sexuality studies, though IIRC the gender of the lead researcher tends to impact the findings.

i'll leave it as an exercise to the reader why that might be

 

[StephenZA]

Seems to suggest to me that many people tend to think submission = consent, and this is plainly wrong. Obviously this is entirely anecdotal based on my experience with a couple of classes of people. But still, it's a troubling view, and I wonder how widely it might be held.

I think that is widely held. I mean realistically how often do people really consider these things, and trying to get people away from the idea that only extreme physical violence is an issue. People like easy solutions not complicated thoughts on how their actions might affect other people.

it's something that has been studied quite extensively in sexuality studies, though IIRC the gender of the lead researcher tends to impact the findings.

i'll leave it as an exercise to the reader why that might be

That scares me even more....

 

[harsh.ag]

It's something which I've gone through personally. Dating a submissive, you have to have very clear boundaries for consent. We used to have a codeword which, when uttered, would signal consent before anything started.

 

[sledger]

It needn't be especially complicated 99% of the time imo.

People just need to remember and appreciate that whilst every consent involves submission, not every submission involves a consent.

 

[harsh.ag]

It needn't be especially complicated 99% of the time imo.

People just need to remember and appreciate that whilst every consent involves submission, not every submission involves a consent.

It's not that simple, imo. I mean it is that simple on the abstract level, but the practice is fraught because your brain isn't always functioning at its best in these situations. Especially when a woman who likes being dominated is involved. The dissonance between words said and body language can be huge, and this is why we had the codeword thing in place.

 

[Magrat Garlick]

It needn't be especially complicated 99% of the time imo.

People just need to remember and appreciate that whilst every consent involves submission, not every submission involves a consent.

do you have experience with the BDSM scene, sir?

 

[StephenZA]

I do feel like Harsh is talking about quite an extreme specific example of sexual proclivity.... whereas I feel Sledger may be talking more about a general sort of feelings of pressure, or acceptance of this is the way it is etc.

 

[sledger]

do you have experience with the BDSM scene, sir?

Ha, well. That's not something on which I am going to comment, I'm afraid.

 

[sledger]

I do feel like Harsh is talking about quite an extreme specific example of sexual proclivity.... whereas I feel Sledger may be talking more about a general sort of feelings of pressure, or acceptance of this is the way it is etc.

Yes indeed. In the context to which harsh is referring he is entirely correct. I suspect, however, that whilst such contexts are more common than plenty would expect, they are still not the norm, so to speak.

My point was essentially that it's important for the general distinction between submission and consent to filter down to a very base/ordinary level of thinking, and that if it did I suspect this would most likely be beneficial in a number of ways.

 

[harsh.ag]

Yeah, don't think sledger was replying specifically wrt to the dom-sub situation

 

[StephenZA]

Ironically, in many ways it just shows how the word 'submission' (as an example) can mean something different to people without any sort intention to deceive or do something bad... I was thinking exactly as Sledger originally was thinking until Harsh brought up his example.

 

[sledger]

Ironically, in many ways it just shows how the word 'submission' (as an example) can mean something different to people without any sort intention to deceive or do something bad... I was thinking exactly as Sledger originally was thinking until Harsh brought up his example.

Yeah, there is a difference between someone being submissive in the context of what Harsh is referring to and someone submitting to having *** with someone out of fear/due to being overborne by some external pressure or factor.

This is sort of what I was driving at when I said every consent involves a submission but not every submission involves a consent.