dontcloseyoureyes
BARNES OUT
Is this a serious question?
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Should George Washington be wiped from History?
- Thread starter brockley
- Start date
Prince EWS
Global Moderator
Can't believe it took us until Post #10 to get this, although I suppose not many of the earlier posts were serious.
Howe_zat
Well-known member
One thing I admire about Australia and New Zealand - nations with a comaparably short history - is the recognition of the men in the trenches as the military heroes. When I visited the museums in Wellington this was my impression.
Athlai
Not Terrible
They shall not grow old
Athlai
Not Terrible
Also this
Howe_zat
Well-known member
They also go big on the various crimes of the Empire. I suppose someone has to, because it doesn't happen close to enough here.
flibbertyjibber
Well-known member
Na, good horse he was. Not the best from Ballydoyle but a good one.
S.Kennedy
Well-known member
I just read a few books on World War One and I believe Australians focus far too much on Gallipoli. If you said the Australians (and Canadians) spearheaded the attack at Amiens which led to the Hundred Days Offensive during which the allies breached the Hindenburg line, gathered up thousands of German prisoners and guns and sent the rest scurrying back towards the Meuse, most people would go, ''ehh?'' But ''Gallipoli''! And ''Trench stalemate'' on the Western Front! Then again the Brits are obsessed with the Somme and Passchendaele in a similar way. It is as if we dwell on these battles - the French and Verdun also - which highlight the senseless futile waste of life in that war and ignore the genuine war winning finale, during which the allies used all their former mistakes to successfully break the stalemate of trench warfare. Haig and the rest of the British/Dominion generals actually come across fairly decent in the end if you read the military history.
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S.Kennedy
Well-known member
Well Haig is no Caesar and he got bogged down in breaking the stalemate which led to huge losses of life. He also had a bad habit of reinforcing failure with failure. But by 1918 he had learnt from his experiences - as had the allies as a whole. One big difference from the Somme and the 1918 battles was the inclusion of the creeping barrage. For the earlier battles the allies would fire artillery for hours on end believing the soldiers would walk through destroyed trenches and dead Germans. It never worked because German trenches were too sophisticated and defended in depth, and the artillery was too inaccurate. The time lapse between the end of the bombardment and the soldiers arriving at the German trenches was too long, meaning the Germans could successfully recover enough to man their machine gun posts and mow the Tommys down. It also had the horrible habit of alerting the Germans that a massive offensive in that part of the line was coming. allowing reinforcements!
By 1918 the allies had dispensed with a preliminary bombardment and instead had perfected the creeping barrage which proceeded the soldiers about 40 yards ahead as they marched into no man's land.
By 1918 the allies had dispensed with a preliminary bombardment and instead had perfected the creeping barrage which proceeded the soldiers about 40 yards ahead as they marched into no man's land.
Anil
Well-known member
mr_mister
Well-known member
Dude Gallipoli was what Australia thought as its chance to prove itself
It was pretty much our debut on the world stage
SillyCowCorner1
Well-known member
Oh boy, a future Samwell Tarly may have a hard time getting the history of these times... with so much 'fake' news..
S.Kennedy
Well-known member
That is fair enough in itself but do not ignore the Australian corps which fought on the western front under John Monash and was one of Haig's most successful units in the final years of the war. The 1918 campaign deserves far more attention than it gets.
hendrix
Well-known member
The success of those campaigns is not really the point. ANZACs already knew that they were damn good soldiers and always have been. The whole reason Gallipoli is celebrated is because how much of a disaster it was, which was entirely due to the British Generals who ordered it and commanded it.
Prior to that, white NZers and Australians considered the UK the "mother country" and considered themselves part of the British Empire. The mistakes of the British commanders was a key point in history that cemented our identities as being separate from the UK, and no longer just a couple of colonial countries.