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Reported mass shooting/ critical incident in Christchurch
- Thread starter Burgey
- Start date
NZTailender
I can't believe I ate the whole thing
NZTailender
I can't believe I ate the whole thing
ftr if there was confusion, I wasn't opining on how this one individual came to do what he specifically did, but how right-wing terrorism has risen in general, and how cultures in NZ and Australia can foster it.
Zinzan
Well-known member
The animal will never see the light of day again, so that's all that really matters innit?
In terms of politicising it, I think it's far too early to debate & have robust discussion in any meaningful & truthful sense. It's a time to condemn the sub-human perpetrator & to respect the victims and their communities.
Spark
Global Moderator
Not at all, there’s nothing wrong about pointing out inconsistencies in arguments, and there’s no problems with pointing out issues with consistency and hence the sincerity of an argument.
“Whataboutism”, on the other hand, is about dishonest attempt to deflect attention from an event which is politically inconvenient because it doesn’t suit your agenda. “It’s horrible that a white supremacist shot up a mosque” has so little to it that could qualify that an “argument” that by objecting to it by going “well what about x and y” and making dishonest and false comparisons to the coverage of other events, it’s revealing what the actual underlying argument is, which they know is socially unacceptable for most of them to make (but my no means all, because there are quite a few people who have made this argument): the underlying cause is Muslims, and attacks on innocent Muslims are the tolerable and justifiable reaction to Islamist terrorism. Because it makes no logical sense otherwise.
This, needless to say, is the logic of genocide.
(There is more to say about how highly “consistency” should be valued in arguments like these, of course, but this isn’t the thread for that)
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Burgey
Well-known member
They'll have a closed court so he can't.
sledger
Spanish_Vicente
If you want to call out hypocrisy just do it directly.
Maximas
Well-known member
Tend to agree
Regardless though, the guy addresses this in the manifesto, claims he chose NZ more or less arbitrarily, but apparently was to some degree attempting to serve out revenge for what he seemed to interpret as a sort of Islamic colonisation of Europe and also for terror attacks carried out by islamic extremists.
Depends how much you take at face value from what he wrote.
Spark
Global Moderator
I mean, you can certainly take quite a bit out of the totality of what he wrote even if not completely at face value. The stuff he wrote on his gun about Tours and Vienna is an old staple of the European far-right which sees Western European "Christendom" and Islamic civilisation as locked in an eternal struggle to the death.
This is not, despite valiant media attempts to present it to the contrary, the deluded and fragmentary ravings of a madman. There is a deep and old ideological superstructure that has spawned such filth - Evola, de Benoist etc etc
Spark
Global Moderator
You could say that about any ideologue IMO. Very few will know the ins and outs of all of their ideological superstructure, but having that around them gives them a feeling of will-to-power that disables the usual moral guardrails that functional humans normally have and allows them to do, well, this.
No one can plan a massacre of this magnitude based on mere xenophobia alone. There has to be a fair amount of work done first before you get into that place.
EDIT: Even the "eco-fascist" bit comes straight out of OG Nazism, although not an aspect of it that people know much about.
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Top_Cat
Well-known member
Yeah, I was about to bring up the community angle (dad was a KKK member, etc.) and that this guy was online but that's a community after a fashion, I guess. Either way, predicting who's going to act vs who's flapping their gums, that's hard. Virtually impossible.
Completely agree it's not lunacy. Those guys are genuinely impossible to stop. These guys, whilst you can't push in the doors of everyone saying this ****, you can work to break up their unity and forums. As I said earlier in the thread, there's probably some pushback from governments that'll make those of us who grew up with virtually an unfettered internet very uncomfortable.
Completely agree it's not lunacy. Those guys are genuinely impossible to stop. These guys, whilst you can't push in the doors of everyone saying this ****, you can work to break up their unity and forums. As I said earlier in the thread, there's probably some pushback from governments that'll make those of us who grew up with virtually an unfettered internet very uncomfortable.
Spark
Global Moderator
Yeah a lot of work has been done wrt ISIS and disrupting/countering their online recruitment forums and propaganda outlets. I really think it's time people started looking at applying similar methodology to white nationalist movements too, who used qualitativley similar methods and have killed quite a lot of people in the last few years now.
Kirkut
Well-known member
I guess technology can solve terrorism instead of law and order. Video game developers must come up with an advanced form of virtual reality where you get to experience simulation like it's real and get to use customized weapons too which are not possible to manufacture. This way terrorists can satisfy all their urges without harming anyone in real world. Yes, you heard it here first, video games will save the world.
