The American Politics thread

[Gnske]

A lot of effort for an ego stroking.

I hope next year the lack of Asian people in the Oscars is addressed to follow up.

 

[Jono]

expected a bigger dig

 

[Dan]

it was a very political oscars...quite different from the mostly vanilla shows of past years...chris rock just let it rip, didn't hold back at all...

 

[Ikki]

Ja but what Clinton is doing has taken years to build in a very personal way, only trumped by, yknow, the first black President. Whoever was opposing Clinton was always going to be up against it. That said, that the Sanders team member managed to splutter a line about welfare is so tone deaf, just beggars belief doesn't it?

This line of thinking is prevalent when you look at the comment sections of certain articles and blogs. The Sanders' supporters are confused why black people who need 'help' don't want good ol' Bernie and his welfare programs. They're even patronising about it: apparently they are voting against their own interests, if only they were smarter. It almost smells of racism. It's a failure of identity politics.

Read some great posts by those SC voters who say that most black people are actually quite conservative fiscally and have religious backgrounds. If it wasn't for the overtly crazy and anti-black sentiment a lot of them would be Republicans. I wonder if that's true but it makes sense.

 

[Uppercut]

This line of thinking is prevalent when you look at the comment sections of certain articles and blogs. The Sanders' supporters are confused why black people who need 'help' don't want good ol' Bernie and his welfare programs. They're even patronising about it: apparently they are voting against their own interests, if only they were smarter. It almost smells of racism. It's a failure of identity politics.

Read some great posts by those SC voters who say that most black people are actually quite conservative fiscally and have religious backgrounds. If it wasn't for the overtly crazy and anti-black sentiment a lot of them would be Republicans. I wonder if that's true but it makes sense.

Yeah I agree with this. You get a general attitude among younger left-leaning types that anyone who disagrees with them on anything has simply been misled by the vile media. Which is normally just mildly annoying and a bit patronising, but in this instance the people who disagree with them are all black, which makes it come across as pretty racist. Because the only way you could think you know what's best for the Southern black community better than they know it themselves is if you have a very low opinion of them.

But middle-class white 20-somethings can bank everything on the revolutionary candidate because they won't be the ones being ****ed in the arse if the gamble doesn't come off and an explicit racist like Trump becomes president. It's exactly what we have in the UK with Corbyn. Their comfortable little lives allow them to be ultra-principled.

 

[silentstriker]

A lot of effort for an ego stroking.

I hope next year the lack of Asian people in the Oscars is addressed to follow up.

 

[Top_Cat]

Has always been thus on the left.

Similar situation in Oz with Nungas. I'd hazard there'd be quite a lot of conservatives in the community but who cares? There's not enough of us for either side to try to appeal to. Certainly noone bothers with any grass-roots vote harvesting!

 

[Top_Cat]

Yeah I agree with this. You get a general attitude among younger left-leaning types that anyone who disagrees with them on anything has simply been misled by the vile media. Which is normally just mildly annoying and a bit patronising, but in this instance the people who disagree with them are all black, which makes it come across as pretty racist.

Absolutely. After a while it's amusing.

 

[RossTaylorsBox]

But middle-class white 20-somethings can bank everything on the revolutionary candidate because they won't be the ones being ****ed in the arse if the gamble doesn't come off and an explicit racist like Trump becomes president. It's exactly what we have in the UK with Corbyn. Their comfortable little lives allow them to be ultra-principled.

Reckon a bunch of them will go and vote for Trump if he's the nominee. They need another non-establishment candidate to cling to.

 

[Uppercut]

Reckon a bunch of them will go and vote for Trump if he's the nominee. They need another non-establishment candidate to cling to.

Heh. While this won't actually happen I can definitely see a load of them not voting at all because the candidates are "all the same".

 

[Magrat Garlick]

Trump, Clinton dominant as Super Tuesday looms - CNNPolitics.com

Oh.

 

[Anil]

care to explain?

 

[Spark]

The Die-Hard Republicans Who Say #NeverTrump - Bloomberg View

This is stunning. The idea of committed Republicans actively campaigning for HRC, of all people, in any numbers is... mind-boggling.

 

[Prince EWS]

The Die-Hard Republicans Who Say #NeverTrump - Bloomberg View

This is stunning. The idea of committed Republicans actively campaigning for HRC, of all people, in any numbers is... mind-boggling.

I know Libertarian Party people who have said they'll campaign for Hillary if Trump is the nominee as well, and Penn Jillette has confirmed that various big LP donors will too. It's not particularly surprising that libertarians don't like Trump, but what I found so surprising about that is the LP people, distinct from just libertarians in general, are obviously not the sort of people who will go for the lesser of two evils. Once every four years they show up and vote their principles for a candidate that gets 1%. Some of them even donate money to candidates who they know are going to get 1%.. and these people are going to campaign for Hillary just because of how much they hate Trump.

 

[Spark]

I know Libertarian Party people who have said they'll campaign for Hillary if Trump is the nominee as well, and Penn Jillette has confirmed that various big LP donors will too. It's not particularly surprising that libertarians don't like Trump, but what I found so surprising about that is the LP people, distinct from just libertarians in general, are obviously not the sort of people who will go for the lesser of two evils. Once every four years they show up and vote their principles for a candidate that gets 1%. Some of them even donate money to candidates who they know are going to get 1%.. and these people are going to campaign for Hillary just because of how much they hate Trump.

I mean that does make sense tbf. They may hate Clinton's policies but Trump is a straight-up authoritarian, and inimical to any sort of libertarian philosophy on a far more fundamental level than a cookie-cutter progressive.

This could be a serious thing though. Usually #TheyreBothTheSame people are fringe types with no real voice and get shouted down at any organised level. If there is real institutional and organised support/movement within the GOP to actively sabotage Trump's campaign during the general, then the electoral map could look like a flipped 1984. (Could, mind.)

 

[Prince EWS]

I mean that does make sense tbf. They may hate Clinton's policies but Trump is a straight-up authoritarian, and inimical to any sort of libertarian philosophy on a far more fundamental level than a cookie-cutter progressive.

Yeah, it certainly makes sense to me that they'd prefer Clinton to Trump. I prefer Clinton to Trump. This is no particular surprise.

I'm sure there have been lots of other elections where they preferred one candidate over the other though and they still rocked up and voted for the LP candidate anyway. Deciding who is less bad out of the D candidate and the R candidate is anathema to the whole concept of the party and the people who vote for it, and that they'd consider this when the candidate they're going to vote for is Hillary Clinton of all people is IMO a good example of just how strange the whole Trump situation really is.

 

[Prince EWS]

This could be a serious thing though. Usually #TheyreBothTheSame people are fringe types with no real voice and get shouted down at any organised level. If there is real institutional and organised support/movement within the GOP to actively sabotage Trump's campaign during the general, then the electoral map could look like a flipped 1984. (Could, mind.)

I think the #TheyreBothTheSame coalition actually contains a lot of people who like Trump, though. Nothing would draw a lot of those people to a candidate more than the establishment of both parties railing against him; if anything it'd confirm their idea that both parties are the same. Most LP people seem aware that being anti-establishment isn't a good thing within itself if you're worse than the establishment, but I couldn't say the same for the rest of that group you're referring to. Alex Jones endorsing Trump is a good example of this.

 

[Spark]

I think the #TheyreBothTheSame coalition actually contains a lot of people who like Trump, though. Nothing would draw a lot of those people to a candidate more than the establishment of both parties railing against him; if anything it'd confirm their idea that both parties are the same. Most LP people seem aware that being anti-establishment isn't a good thing within itself if you're worse than the establishment, but I couldn't say the same for the rest of that group you're referring to. Alex Jones endorsing Trump is a good example of this.

Yeah but what I mean is that usually parties clamp down on actual internal dissent pretty hard during a campaign. Might not happen this year.

Meanwhile, prepare for a year of this:

 

[Howe_zat]

Yeah but what I mean is that usually parties clamp down on actual internal dissent pretty hard during a campaign. Might not happen this year.

Meanwhile, prepare for a year of this:

**** me, he's already won hasn't he

 

[social]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGc2nN9OguQ

Anyway, if Trump were to become el presidente, I can see a situation where US legislation basically goes into a holding pattern as the top guy needs the support of Congress to get anything passed

Could well be just 4 years of Trump declaring that he is the most powerful man in the world whilst achieving nothing before being eaten by his 'doo and never heard of again