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Why do people still believe MSM?
- Thread starter jonbrooks
- Start date
I tend to find anything written or read by people use the term 'MSM' to be far less trustworthy than people who are, y'know, actually trained as journalists.
Like, sure, when you're reading anything you need to be approaching it with a critical eye rather than taking it as gospel, but isn't that a really basic level of common sense?
Like, sure, when you're reading anything you need to be approaching it with a critical eye rather than taking it as gospel, but isn't that a really basic level of common sense?
Uppercut
Well-known member
Yeah this list of cues to disregard an opinion had it at number 3: The Top 10: Cues to Disregard an Opinion | The Independent. I'm not sure if I'd have it above "neoliberal" or not, reflecting the difficulty in deciding which of jonbrooks and Pratters have worse opinions.
Magrat Garlick
Global Moderator
That's an absolutely terrible list. 3, 7, and 8 I can sort of accept, but to say that absolutely all critiques of neoliberalism are conspiracy theories is a security blanket for Sensible Pundits to avoid looking at the reasons why Clinton and Remain lost. Also it does not contain any fascist signifiers (White Genocide et al), apparently those are A-OK.
That said, a term that puts together the Mail, Fox News, New York Times and German regional television in the same bracket is a useless generalization. You need to look at the sources of the article, the agendas and backgrounds of the journalists and the paper owners in order to read critically, but this applies equally to alternative media of the sort that peddles "TRUMP WON THE POPULAR VOTE"
Uppercut
Well-known member
Yep it's by John Rentoul, he's one of the smuggest, most obnoxious Very Serious People in British journalism. Because he's a centrist working for a left-leaning paper his sphere includes far more left-idiots than right-idiots, which is why the list is the way it is. But I do still agree with most of it.
Spark
Global Moderator
Apparently it's used as a dietary supplement—oh, that's what you meant by snake oil.
Carry on.
Re: neoliberalism, it is a very real and substantive thing deserving of very real critique, but you do tend to get the feeling on the left sometimes that people use it as a catchall to means "stuff that I don't like that has vaguely something to do with economics, if that". The laundry list of things I (and presumably all of us) have seen blamed on neoliberalism, including stuff that has existed for hundreds of years before Reagan and Thatcher and Greenspan and the rest of them, is very long.
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Yeah, AWTA. Reminds me of the time I did a presentation in a uni class about inequality and neoliberalism where I actually bothered to delve into defining neoliberalism as an actual thing within its historical context, looking at its impact in social and economic dimensions across various classes of people, and then dropping this question:
"Are steps forward in the realm of social and political equality consistent with, or in spite of, modern neoliberalism? Is there a ‘ceiling’ above which social justice cannot pass within a neoliberal framework?"
The collective reaction of the class when presented with neoliberalism as something more complex than a Big Bad Thing was actually quite amusing. And oh man was it sweet to still get good marks from a tutor who literally said that 'anybody who defends Friedman is a monster and will fail' (or something along those lines).
"Are steps forward in the realm of social and political equality consistent with, or in spite of, modern neoliberalism? Is there a ‘ceiling’ above which social justice cannot pass within a neoliberal framework?"
The collective reaction of the class when presented with neoliberalism as something more complex than a Big Bad Thing was actually quite amusing. And oh man was it sweet to still get good marks from a tutor who literally said that 'anybody who defends Friedman is a monster and will fail' (or something along those lines).
Prince EWS
Global Moderator
straw man
Well-known member
grecian
Well-known member
Yep, no-one believes anything any more, so a totally unqualified shyster, with a record of illegality, bankruptcies, accusations of everything under the Sun can win President.
In America I still blame Kennedy for all this, ****er should have ducked.
Now, people reading that may think I am someone who thinks JFK was a great man and potentially a god. **** do I, he was clearly a despicable, lying weasel. ****ed anything that moved was probably aligned with the mob, started the american participation in the Vietnam War, nearly caused WW3 with the totally illegal invasion of Bay of Pigs, people say "imagine what he could have done if he'd lived longer", yeah imagine.
Yet America (mainly including Liberals) have been obsessed with the conspiracy theory for over 50 years now, it's ingrained in the Yank consciousness, they generally believe their own government killed him (the polls show this), at least in part with other agencies. Bill Hicks whined like a bitch about it, telling any that thought letting it go was wrong, because he'd actually been to the site and he, the notable ballistic scientist reckoned it was an impossible shot, Gawd I hated Bill Hicks.
I have no idea who killed JFK, personally I don't feel qualified even after almost sitting through the whole of Oliver Stones film to say. Yet I know the entire thing has made Yanks stupidly conspiracy-theory susceptible, and it's totally the Liberals ****ing fault, so Pizzagate can gain a hold, plus all the other bizarre whackjob theories spread by fake news.
Look after Brexit I'm not a big fan of our electorate, but I'm pretty sure 99% of people would have laughed at these stories, but in the US they've been primed for 60 years.
In America I still blame Kennedy for all this, ****er should have ducked.
Now, people reading that may think I am someone who thinks JFK was a great man and potentially a god. **** do I, he was clearly a despicable, lying weasel. ****ed anything that moved was probably aligned with the mob, started the american participation in the Vietnam War, nearly caused WW3 with the totally illegal invasion of Bay of Pigs, people say "imagine what he could have done if he'd lived longer", yeah imagine.
Yet America (mainly including Liberals) have been obsessed with the conspiracy theory for over 50 years now, it's ingrained in the Yank consciousness, they generally believe their own government killed him (the polls show this), at least in part with other agencies. Bill Hicks whined like a bitch about it, telling any that thought letting it go was wrong, because he'd actually been to the site and he, the notable ballistic scientist reckoned it was an impossible shot, Gawd I hated Bill Hicks.
I have no idea who killed JFK, personally I don't feel qualified even after almost sitting through the whole of Oliver Stones film to say. Yet I know the entire thing has made Yanks stupidly conspiracy-theory susceptible, and it's totally the Liberals ****ing fault, so Pizzagate can gain a hold, plus all the other bizarre whackjob theories spread by fake news.
Look after Brexit I'm not a big fan of our electorate, but I'm pretty sure 99% of people would have laughed at these stories, but in the US they've been primed for 60 years.
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Ouch! They're fighting amongst themselves now.
Spark
Global Moderator
Honestly, I take very few of those "campus left!!!!1!" stories seriously at all but stuff like this does tempt me to reconsider.
TBH the main problem with the "(((MSM)))!!!!!!" thing is that it's so obviously detached from reality that it makes actual criticism of the media that much harder to give any volume to amongst the noise. And oh boy is there plenty of criticism to be made.
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Shri
Well-known member
They are not jornalists. They are 'newscasters'.
Prince EWS
Global Moderator
I probably shouldn't laugh. I'd have just failed if I had the misfortune of coming across such a tutor I think.
indiaholic
Well-known member
I did not know that people thought Friedman was a monster. ITSTL.
Spark
Global Moderator
The joys of a STEM major in which tutorials were a very optional extra.